Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. Hi, Frank. Thank you for coming. Thank you for making the trip. So tell our listening audience a little bit about Frank Romo and Romo GIS. Yes. So my name is Frank Romo. I'm from Los Angeles, California. I'm a community organizer and activist and an educator. Romo GIS focuses on using technology for social change and social impact. And we do that all across the country. All right. So let's talk a little bit about, you gave a presentation earlier today. at the North Star Homecoming, and you talk about using GIS for change. Can you elaborate on that just a little bit? Absolutely. GIS, I believe, is a way to access more power. More power to data, more power to tools, resources, job opportunities. And so what we really do is try to leverage that GIS and that power to ensure that other people have access to jobs, opportunities. education around it. We do that through our K through our 9 through 12 education program in Detroit, Michigan. We also teach community members how to leverage GIS to make community impact, whether that's around hazardous waste, food insecurity, access to transportation, any way we can help improve the urban environment or people's lives using GIS. That's what we seek to do. All right. Can you give us an example of the impact of Programs like Romo GIS to local communities. Yes, so for now the third year in a row We've held our ninth through twelfth grade summer camp for the local Detroit schools and in that summer camp, our young men at our local school teach community members how to fly drones, teach them how to do some basic mapping, and in that, in offering that experience to the local community, it not only provides our students opportunity to become leaders, But it also reinforces that we're here to give back. We're here to support our community through this technology. And any way we can help enhance our community or our community members, that's what we're going to do. One of the attendees asked a really good question about data ownership. Can you talk a little bit more about how you empower the students, the young people coming through your program on data ownership. How do they own their data? How do they collect their data? Absolutely. So last year, about two years ago, At the summer camp, students were out collecting information on fire hydrants or blighted houses in their community. And in doing so, they were able to submit that data through to the city of Detroit and become an active participant, really become an active citizen. Sometimes we do that through projects like that, or we've had other citizen science projects where students or community members learn about the science of GIS and what it means to have more trees planted and how that promotes health. and greater resilience in communities. And so wherever we can provide access to the tools and then let the community take ownership of that data, meaning they own it, they know how to make stories out of it, know how to make data narratives out of it. Their experience is really what we try to center. The data is a supplement, so whenever we can put the two together, the community experience along with the data, that's when it becomes the most powerful. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about, you mentioned the freedom of information data can you go into that a little bit more? What's the importance of it? What's the value of it? Okay, yes. Let me just contextualize it. We were working with nonprofits and community organizations in the state of California on gun violence reduction efforts. Now gun violence data is often difficult to come by, meaning because of it needs to be obfuscated or depending on who it's collected by, you might not always have access to it. So if you don't have access to it, you have to perform what's called the Freedom of Information Act, which is a legal act that allows citizens to gain access to publicly available data. So we did that at the federal level, and we also did a California Public Records Act. And in doing that, residents were able to gain access to Gun violence in their community, crime data in their community, data that they would not have had otherwise. And then by gaining access to it, we then provided them with the tools to be able to map that and visualize that, so then they can take the next step of bringing that to their local officials, or talking about it in their community meetings, to advance more justice in their neighborhoods. Ooh, I love that. I'm curious about how hard it is to actually do that. It's not hard. No, no, not at all. We've, so we've done multiple cohorts where we've trained nonprofit organizations, community organizations, a five week program, how to use GIS. And by the time they're done with that five weeks. They're able to be able to map their own data. They'll be able to work in Excel sheets. And we train, you know, from K through 12 education all the way to older adults. And what it's really about is empowering multiple generations. Because one of the greatest things that we've done that I've seen is when we had our ninth through 12th grade summer camp on the third day. Students are presenting and a grandmother or mother comes in and the young man is talking about the work and talking about GIS and explaining to his mom what it is and she's getting it and everybody's just kind of clicking and when that happens, it's just a beautiful thing. You see the power of community. And you see how resilient community can be when we're given the right tools. All right. Okay. So you talked about Romo GIS working with individuals from the age five all the way through, let's say 105, right? All the way through the, from the youngest to the oldest. What geographic regions do you serve? So you've mentioned California, you've mentioned Michigan. I know you're in Chicago. Tell us about the, the geographic. area you serve? Well, just in the past probably two months, I've probably been in like 10 cities. So we're all over the place. Just after this I'm actually flying back up to Detroit to go meet with some of the students for about a day. And then I'm presenting in LA the next day. So we are really all over the country. And again, for us, We find that as a real opportunity because there's not a lot of people who are nimble or flexible enough to go meet with community but a lot of times that's what's needed because we work with municipal organizations or larger organizations and they're not able to sit and meet with community where they are. It's always come on our terms and we'll, we'll connect with you. So Romo GIS really prides itself on coming to community and saying, Hey, we're knocking on the door. We're here. We're here to help. We're here to support you. And whatever way that fits in for you, we're not going to impose our framework. We're here to just Help support you whatever way you can. Alright, so on that line of thinking, in terms of partnering, in terms of getting involved, what are some of the things that macro or micro scale people can do to get involved, companies, organizations, what are the things that are going to be most impactful to companies like Romo GIS? I think for us, when we're working in underserved communities, when we're working with populations, that are, that are, don't have access to some of these skills or tools or resources. You know, funding is often a, an issue when we're working on developing these nine through 12 grade curriculums and programs. And so Ensuring that we can partner with organizations who see that vision, who have that model for equity, where it's not just a one and done, as it was just said, but how do we take these students who are now seniors, who've been on our program through four years, now I'm writing recommendations for them, now they're interns with my company, how do we transition them so they can go be interns at another, at a Fortune 500 company or at The local university GIS shop, right? It's just about giving them that access. So for us, it's really about finding more partners who are passionate about this work and are interested in making an impact. Because we clearly have the track record to make the impact. So we find partners who have that same passion and alignment. We're always, we're always excited. In fact, somebody reached out to us in Las Vegas and in Seattle and said, Hey, we're really interested in what you do. Can you tell us what you can do for our community? And when we hear people reaching out like that, that's really exciting because it showcases that there's a need for that. And it showcases that we're doing it in the right way so that people want to, want to engage with us. So our goal is if we could train more people to do it that way, then more people will be able to make more impact across the nation. Okay. So, in the vein of diversity, equity, and inclusion and cultural competency, what are some ways for larger organizations who are looking to make greater positive impact in communities, what are some of the ways that they should approach or could approach communities where black and brown individuals live who might have Reasonably so, distrust for larger corporations coming in and offering to help. Absolutely, you're gonna get me, now you're gonna get me all Oh no, we're doing it. No, absolutely I think for too often communities of color have been subject to this extractive model, right? Whether it's the banking industry, no matter what industry it is, they've learned how to extract from our communities. For us, it's really about flipping that script and understanding how we empower our communities more. For a long time, when I was an activist, I was, you know, fighting against those corporations, fighting against those kind of things. And I think we've really shifted our model to say, instead of fighting against it, we're going to build more. And so it's about how do we build those ecosystems and infrastructure that continue to cycle through. Because again, like I said, it's been three years for our students. How do we get those students? To the HBCU, they're going to get to train more students, get more people excited about this work because it's not just GIS. It is the drone technology. It is the understanding how to read data and spreadsheets because all of that helps our communities. All right. So you talk a lot about working with young people. You talk a lot about being in the community. What drives you? Tell us what, what drives your passion? For me, I was, I'm from the West coast. I'm from Los Angeles. Tupac was a big influence on my life and Tupac mother and family members, part of the Black Panthers. Black Panthers were a very big part of my inspiration and model growing up, right? What did the Panthers do? They fed the community, they educated the community, protect the community. And for us, like we, we see ourselves in that same vein. That's really where I feel like I come from where I'm saying, how do we put models together, strategies, programs together that can feed, educate, protect our communities. And how do we do that? In a holistic manner, so that it's not just one off here and there. Okay, so for young people coming through programs like Roma GIS, what is some career advice that you can offer to them for navigating spaces with their GIS skills that people don't typically see them in? I think that's a really good question. I think as I told some of the young men at Detroit, I said, we're going to go to this event. It's going to be a fundraiser, you know, primarily you guys are going to be the black guys in the room. There's not going to be, it's going to be a bunch of white people. I said, you guys got to get comfortable and figure out how to move. And we kind of did a little mock handshakes, a little kind of setup, blah, blah, blah. And I said, we better get comfortable because this is the first time, but this isn't going to be the last time. And so I think that's the kind of mentality that I inspire folks to take away because we're, we just, we might've just got here, but we're here to stay. And we're here to have those conversations and push these things forward. Okay. So How did you find GIS? I think I've always been kind of a navigator, geographer. We've done that a lot in our community organizing. When we had to knock on doors, we would put a map on the table and understand what houses we hit ahead and where we needed to go. And of course we would talk about, like I said, things about food deserts, access to transportation, labor, these kind of community issues we were trying to solve. And then fast forward, I was at Columbia University during Hurricane Sandy. And during that time, We were working with a local urban farm. We were getting some of the young youth who worked at the farm to get some of that food into the local restaurants. Hurricane Sandy came and wiped away the farm that we were working with. And so, immediately, we had to do something. We had to fix we had to we had to shift right away. And so we turned into community organizers, emergency managers. We used the map and geospatial technology, GPS to find where people were, where there were damages, and those kind of things. And it was at that moment that I realized Wow, this is a really powerful tool that all of our community members should have in their hands. Not just when it's emergency, not just when, you know, we see something, a corporation trying to move into our neighborhood. No, we got to be more proactive with these kind of tools. So that's what really brought me. Okay. All right, so language plays a big part in how we gatekeep GIS spaces, how we gatekeep these, powerful tools. How do you make GIS accessible? Oh, I think like with any teaching, it's about relating to the people who are trying to learn it. And I, I touched upon this earlier, I think. Without that representation, there are students who, who like maybe technology, who know how to game and code, but they don't have a teacher who looks like them or who can relate to them on those levels. And now, you know, that just kind of fizzles out. I think it's about coming to the table and understanding, again, what's important in that person. If I'm talking to a ninth grader GIS, Or a mom who's trying to find access to the local WIC store. Those are two very different conversations. They both include GIS. If he's trying to get to school, she's trying to get the WIC store. They, they both include GIS, but these are real situations or experiences that people have, you relate that experience, you show them how the technology can improve. Their lives or their opportunities there because a lot of times people have that hesitancy. Oh, well, I can't do it the technology is too difficult and I think the demystifying it is saying no you can't do this, too and I think it's really important as people of color to recognize like our history of Cartography and mapping and whether it's mapping the stars mapping other other historical maps like our people have done this for a long time and so to Recognize I just want to think I always like to bring up is that our people have some of this in our blood like we Know how to do these things and so it's about taking ownership back of that and say hey We we know how to do these things that when I get our folks to the table my hope is that I get them to the table and they're more equipped with that critical thinking and that knowledge so they can have even more nuanced geospatial conversations that affect their community and not just this high level kind of cookie cutter conversations. Right. Okay, so along the, the lines of language, you seem real comfortable talking about, you know, Black Panthers, Black Power, racial equity. How did you get to that point? So back in California. I was ethnic studies major, Mexican American studies. You know again growing up as activists, too I mean, I was out in the streets like protesting probably and I was like, you know 1415 like just whatever it was now and and it's a real nod to my mom and my family They were very much cut from that cloth and they've been activists. They've been organizers. They've worked with community whether that's their neighbors or whatever as leaders or however, it might be so Just seeing that growing up, I, I recognize that my, my culture and history is something that was really important to me and understanding that has really helped me communicate to, to folks because one of the things that I learned as an organizer in LA and through my ethnic studies is, you know, how, how important diversity is, diversity of thought, diversity of people in the room, diversity of, of language, all of these things, because only through that do we create that really fruitful conversation. And so I'm really, I think proud to also be from Los Angeles because I think Los Angeles has a lot of that and when you have to navigate that and learn and make mistakes, that's how you, you're able to be able to put it all together a little better. Okay. So any last thoughts you want to leave our listening audience with? Data is power and it's power to the people all the time. All right. One last question. Using your vast body of knowledge. What would be your approach to surviving the zombie apocalypse? I'd probably really, really rely on my network because I don't know that I'd make it real quick. I'd have to have somebody who could guide me. Be like, yo, Frank, Frank, we gotta go this way. No, I gotta have some homies. I gotta have some homies I can call. You're liability. You're the first person to be eaten by the zombies. I know, that's what I'm saying. You took too long. I don't got a plan. I got the homies who got a plan. That's what I'm trying to say. You got drone technology, Frank! That's what they said to me, Frank, what are you talking about? You don't know how to work the machine. You know how to fly the drone. Oh, you fly the drone into the zombie. Well, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. All right. I've heard so many good things about you. So I'm glad to finally get to meet you. Thank you. I hope I didn't disappoint. No, you did not. You did not. You, my, my, my partner in resistance. Yeah. Thank you. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Louberts, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room and to the Northstar team. Thank you. Shakonda, Raisha, Clinton. Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.