Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. Hi, everybody. I'm here today with a friend of North Star's, Vero, which I'm so happy to be having this conversation and coming off of your homecoming conversation, which talked about self care and the role that self care plays in this type of work that we do, liberatory work and, just of being part of the movement. I am so happy to hear your insights on these questions because I do have a list of questions for you. But first, I will ask you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your GIS career path. It's so amazing to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. I really enjoy being in this space and I'm the founder of a consulting company, Geospatial Equity Tech, that provides consulting services in the space of geospatial technology, inclusive leadership, project management, and capacity building. As part of that work, I founded a non profit, the AfriTech Fellowship, that is centered on empowering women in the STEAM field to become geospatial critical thinkers. It is there the program has. Graduated 20 Mauritian and African fellows from the African continent. And we have been really excited to see these STEM professionals that had never interacted with GIS tools, kind of embrace the technology and apply it to their work stream. How did I get to this point? How did I And I think one of the ways that we get to be part of this thinking that we need to empower more people toward GIS skills and spatial literacy is I started my career as a conservation biologist in Mauritius. Birds, the field work and selecting data and being on the field with the species . However, I quickly kind of realized that the industry was plagued with poor leadership because I always joked that people sign up for conservation to work with huge fluffy animals, but end up having to work mostly with people. And because of this challenge, I witnessed poor leadership around me and that drove me to ask myself more in depth questions about leadership and I had alongside this a passion for data so I got a scholarship to do my master's in the U. S. So I left my home country, Mauritius, and went to a much bigger country, the United States, to study. And it was quite a culture shock because I realized that the leadership question had been present for a long time in the United States. And leadership had another layer to it, which was the equity, diversity, inclusion, belonging question of leadership. So I had never heard this term before, they were quite foreign. And I was thrown into these rooms where people had been interested in these topics for years, probably, and listening to them. And I realized the complexity of it. And part of And the key to driving and understanding this complexity comes in geospatial data. Geospatial data, for me, I saw it more as a tool rather than a career path, to be honest. I saw it as, wow, this tool allowed me to shed light to some questions and understand some critical issues that affect my community back home. Thank you. So that's kind of how I ended up in the geospatial field. I don't call myself a GIS professional, although that's what a lot of my consulting work entails. I do like to think of it more as a tool than a career path. Yes, , I agree. When I'm feeling punchy, I tell people, well, GIS is a stupid tool, we bring the life to it. We bring the, the data, we bring the humanity to GIS. And that's something that I try to center when I interact with people and talk about GIS. Okay. So you are an integral part of the Northstar ecosystem, the Northstar family. And you show up for Northstar. Why? I show up for Northstar because I always remember my first call with Northstar. It was completely virtual during COVID and my first time kind of attending U-C virtually and being invited into that call and how welcoming people were in that space. And I had already been into a lot of dominantly white GIS spaces by that point where I had felt kind of pressured to prove myself to belong in that space. And one thing that I have noticed in NorthStar space for myself is that I haven't felt the need to qualify myself. I have felt celebrated. I have felt welcomed. I'm not going to say we don't bicker. Because then life would be boring. There is things that when we're preparing for sessions or working together, that people have different ideas and different opinions, but what is very and I think what's. Nice about the space is how we are welcoming of those different ideas and different opinions. How we don't have this hierarchy of we need to. You need to prove yourself to kind of contribute to that space. And that has been something I have not experienced, which is why I continue to give my time to the From a personal growth and work experience perspective, it has brought me a lot, and I'm very appreciative of that, and thanks to Northstar, I've also now kind of created opportunities for other people in Mauritius to work with Northstar, and this is the reason I'm highly appreciative and continue to support it and encourage people to support Northstar and promote it. Well, we definitely appreciate you. We know some things, we don't know all the things, and we, we try to, to be what we want to see out there in the world, like bringing the voices to the table, and let's have, these, these conversations that need to be had. And so, so I thank you for showing up for North Star. I think you and I gel in this way where we lead with mindfulness. That was part of your homecoming conversation with Dawn talking about being in the moment, talking about self care and the role that mindfulness plays. So what role does your approach. play in the GIS work that you do and where does it stem from and why is it important to your work? It is an integral part of my work because I'm a learner and I realized in the course of my life I had this imposter syndrome which was kind of created by society, right? Imposter syndrome exists because society has systematically told people that their worth is based on Achievements or qualifications. So I was finding myself at a point in my life where I was taking on all these courses, finding out for all courses or class or all the networking events. And I realized there was very, There were some things to show for it, but sometimes there was very little to show out of my time put in this. I integrated wellness as part of the fellowship. I do grounding sessions before any kind of in person or virtual sessions we have. I talk about wellness with the fellows a lot. It's because Let's take a workflow. When you're collecting data or when you're interacting with a group on a project, you have to be fully present in the moment to really make sure, especially for people working in the tech space, that you're capturing all the requirements and the user needs. And the issue for me when I look at the tech space is we jump to solutions and a lot, and we don't spend enough time listening and grounded. So from a personal perspective, I chose to integrate those practices of wellness and thinking about wellness and mindfulness in my life, because I wanted to ensure that when I was in a space, I was fully present, and I was really grasping the knowledge that I was like spending that time in that space networking meaningfully. It is not always easy because there's a lot of stimulus around us when you go to a conference, and from a practice perspective, I really wanted to ensure that people that were in my program were fully present with each other, so that when they would go create or collaborate on projects, they were stepping into a room with full presence. And acknowledging that it's not just numbers, it's not just projects, it's people that is an integral part of working together. And whether or not we want to, people walk into this space with their mental health where they are at. And that plays a huge role into how we interact with each other and how successful we are at interacting with each other. And, and that's kind of one of the reason I like North Star as well, is there's lot, there's a lot of laughter in our space. There's understanding around people are not always able to contribute as much at different times of their lives. And there's a com a space for us to hold that conversation and to like, people contribute what they can, when they can. And so, and I, I love that. We began this conversation talking about what leadership looks like. I think what we're trying to, either intentionally or unintentionally, because of our experiences, lived experiences, that when we walk into our roles as leaders of Northstar, we are walking into it with the mindfulness that we're meeting people where they are, right? And I think that that's such an important part of leadership, understanding. Someone's lived experience to the extent that we are aware of it. We are working with people, like you said, being able to lean in as much as they can, but that understanding and given that space and grace to, meet them where they are. I do definitely appreciate that. And I think that it's part of what makes you a good leader. So GIS has the potential to have tremendous impact on communities. And so from your experience, how has GIS impacted the communities that you're able to serve and interact with? My biggest impact lies with the AfriTech Fellowship Program. It brought together women around these four core themes, which is geospatial technology, inclusive leadership, project management, and wellness. So the wellness exists throughout the program, and I always love the first few training sessions where I teach these women that interact with data on a daily basis. I introduce them to the tools and the fear that I read on their face. And I think the reason why it's particularly exceptional because they feel overwhelmed by the amount of things you can do with it, and they don't feel like they can do it. And so throughout the six month period, they are put through this structure with their work on a capstone project using the technology. And the idea is you don't need to know all of it. I don't, I don't have any expectation for you to become geospatial professionals. What I expect of you is to become spatially literate and become critical thinkers of the data that's put in front of you because all of you are in the same field, all of you are community leaders in your own right. And what was the most impactful for me is to see them use this technology in their projects and their community work. One example is when one of the fellows used the technology. To map some of the dive centers and the dive sites around Mauritius, and also did a story map to encourage people to go diving because we are a small island. 70 percent of us can't swim or not comfortable in the ocean because we're not taught. And there's a lot of fear and the idea that diving is not an accessible sport. So she does this story map debunking all the myths. And I have seen her like, you just utilize this as a tool for communication and explaining why she did it. So I will say that from a technical perspective, that has been really amazing to see what happens when you put the technology in the hands of people that were not trained to use it in the conventional way and how creative they get with it and how more impactful sometimes it is than if you had a traditional approach to GIS. The second one is the community that came out of it. Because they went through the struggles of learning these tools together and doing this deep dive on their personal life and collaborating on the Capstone project, the word that comes out systematically from their mouths, which makes me really happy and brings me a lot of joy, is to systematically say that Afritech has been such a safe space for them. And I appreciate that with all my heart. And recently we launched Afritech Connect, That is a series of short talks and webinars around our four core themes with the fellows. And, you know, sometimes you think, oh, it's because you're on the call that they're trying to be nice and say nice things about you. But not being on the call and just watching them interact and say how safe they've felt in that space and how happy they are to have a community to talk about wellness, I've been. really I feel very happy of this impact. I think happy is not even the right word. Inspired. Yes. I feel inspired hearing that it never ceases to amaze me that when you get the technology into the hands of people who may know about the technology, but have not actually touched the technology. So we're end users of the technology, but to actually see behind the scenes and to see. You mean I can take this and I can go map my neighborhood, I can go map, situations or conditions that I've seen in my own neighborhood and make something happen. And I think that empowerment piece is so important. You mentioned the need for safe spaces, to be vulnerable, to be an actual learner and then you said something that led me to think about the language we use, when we talk about GIS, because it has never necessarily been positioned to certain people to certain geographies, what it's like to tear down those barriers. So given what you said, language and the need for safe spaces, what do you see as the biggest challenges in the field of GIS or the biggest challenges with GIS technology today? I will say that as soon as you approach anyone locally there's a lot of blurred area, especially on a global scale around access to licensing. If we're just going to go for that lens first, like people, things about open source and like licensing. And I don't know what's the solution around this, but there is this idea that, you know, you need the software to do technology, when really what we need to be encouraging is to start thinking about how do we shift the conversation from doers of GIS. To users of GIS. If that makes sense where on a daily basis when we talk about facial literacy is often on how to use the software or how to get the licensing to the software when I. When I see the technology, we need to reshift it of thinking if I'm a community member and I'm presented with a map, what information do I need to ask about this map? It's not always clear. And even for me, as someone working in the industry, I see, let's say, a political map or demographic map. It took me quite some time to get to a space where I find myself able to ask critical questions and have critical thinking around the map or the product delivered to me. So the conversation needs to shift. from how does one do GIS, versus how does one interpret GIS information. Because we spend a lot of time on the doing part, and I don't see a lot of resource on making sure the interpretation is correct. That is what I've observed in the field in general, and this is what I've observed. Why as part of the fellowship with the fellows, I don't just focus. A big portion of the program is really asking critical questions around, so you want to do this project, why are you doing this project? Why does this matter? Why, why, like asking this why question, what problem are we trying to solve? And I saw this example with the, the fellows where I would ask them what problem they're trying to solve. And one of them would say, Oh, I'm trying to solve drought. And I would ask them, is your product going to solve drought? No, probably not. We agree, but it might shed light on two areas need to be prioritized. To manage drought. And that is the kind of refocus, which is more product management in a way. And there needs to be more product management happening in the GIS space, more scoping, more critical thinking around the product itself, rather than just, Oh, we can do it. So let's go and collect the data and do it. And then we'll ask questions of it later, which is how I learned to do GIS. See, I love that asking the questions because sometimes in GIS spaces, you will hear, I think, conversations around feature functionality without actually thinking about what is it that we're looking at? Who are the people behind that zip code, that area, that geography, that XY coordinate, and then what's it ethical? Right? So it's, it's just, it's, it's a different way of using GIS, right? And asking these questions of it. And it's funny that Shannon said, we don't actually need people to solve for racism. We just need you to do your part in making sure that we do good work, and I think that this is that type of conversation. So you, North Star, and other members of the African diaspora we work in GIS, we talk a lot about the concept of democratizing GIS, democratizing spaces. What does democratizing GIS mean to you? There's multiple answers to this. The first one would be to kind of demystify how hard it is to do GIS. I don't think it is hard to do GIS, I see that it is hard to implement GIS in a practical world. So we need to demystify how technically hard it is. I'm not gonna say that GIS is easy to do from a technical perspective, but there's a lot of incredibly technical problems. People are there in the world that can do the heavy lifting, that can collaborate with others. So there is a need for people around the world to realize that this tool is available, and understanding geospatial data is a critical skill set because we are presented with so much geospatial information on a daily basis. We are huge consumers of geospatial data on a daily basis, and on a daily basis, we contribute to geospatial data through social media, through our work. This is all location based intelligence that people use. To influence how we shop, how we live, how we, what we eat, where we go to the cinema and all these decisions. There is a need for this awareness globally because data is the next goal. And when I think of African countries, we are still considered as poor. By the Western world, Africa contains 30 percent of the world's natural resources. That is still being extracted and used by the West to this day. Data that we generate and create. is equally likely to just being taken from us if we don't raise more awareness and we don't democratize access to this technology and spatial literacy. It is important that the talent and the skills that we have is not just hemorrhaged into the U. S. or into the West to then extract the data from African countries or from poorer communities. Completely oblivious. And that data can be used in many positive ways, but it can also be used in many harmful ways. So, this is what I mean by democratizing access to GIS and geospatial technology. Is step one, bringing this awareness of the wealth of data that can be generated, or is sometimes generated, in the African diaspora. But is either It's not given the support, not given the funding, or it's not being elevated enough, or sometimes it's simply non existent. So there is this need to really put more effort to even have baseline data in communities around the world and use this baseline data for impact and for work. And when we train people in the African diaspora, how do we create opportunity for them to create, to use those skills? Because as someone from, you know, an African country, I've had to fight really hard, and I'm still fighting really hard, to find how to best use my skills to help my community. And it's not very clear, because there seems to be more hurdles than help along the way. And do you think that's by design? Oh, absolutely. I think, That this whole structure is Created to, this is systemic oppression, right? Keeping people in the dark about what's around them. And because data is the new gold, people are sometimes focusing their energy onto certain things and being upset about it from a political perspective. And I'm referring to Mauritius. When they are willingly hanging, handing their data through free Wi Fi in certain spaces that they don't even know. And that's, but by no means their fault. So I will say that, that's definitely by design for me. Yeah, I, I would agree. You know, when I think about 30 percent of the, the world's natural resources, and I go back to the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing. Someone that the devil doesn't exist, right? And it's, you know, you're, you're, you're beneath, you're a third world country. But when I think of, so one of the podcasts that I enjoy listening to is Geo Habari. And I like it because it gives me a different global perspective of what's happening with GIS, right? So GIS, It's not just a cool new tool. When I hear the people on Yariwool's podcast, they talk about their GIS needs to work. Right? Because lives depend on it. Real lives. So it's not a value add. It's not an additional, you know, piece of capital. Like, it needs to work. And so when I think about GIS at its best, I'm thinking, literally, how does it solve the world's most challenging problems? Right? And so I hate that GIS is gatekept. So when I think about democratizing, I I'm thinking about level the playing field. How do we support other nations to, to utilize GIS in their communities, to utilize To be a part of a system that they contribute to, either knowingly or unknowingly. Right? And so, you know, when you think of this cool new application, that in order to get access to it, you have to give, you know, the company access to everything on your phone, access to my, my phone book, access to my Photo gallery, access to everything just to play. And let's say it's not a game, but it's something that's critical to your day to day life. Is it really a choice if I need this thing? And in order for me to get access to this thing, I have to give you all of my data, right? So it's really not a choice and it feels like it's just paper. And so. When I think of mindfulness practices, and I think of actually seeing the people and being in tune with the people. So the software is stupid software. What brings the humanity to it? What brings the ethics to it? What brings, solving actual problems how do you ask people for this data? How do you put checks and balances in place, make it available to everybody so that we all have a say in how this data gets used without exploiting people who need this this Wi Fi for day to day life. And so it's always in the back of my head. And I think it comes down to when you see the people behind the zip codes, when you see people behind, geographic locations, it's not just, this one thing. And so, so yeah And if you don't mind, I add something, from the human capital perspective and human contribution is equity because I'm thinking as a local, right, when I, I look at being in Mauritius, someone, I remember distinctly this call, I just arrived in Mauritius, I was on a call and one of the Esri distributors, the local university contacted and say they want a consultant to do the work. And so, because I'm in Mauritius, someone contacts me and say, Oh, since you're here, can you just, have a conversation with that person? And I remember when I got on the call, the person said two things to me. Oh, we thought you'd be from Esri. And, you know, we want someone who's international, was what they say to me. And there's this thing in Russia where which I've heard around African countries, where there's this desire to always hire external consultants, so people that are from the West, to do consulting work in African countries. And so I look at a lot of the tenders and requests for proposal that would take hours. You'd have to have a team of 20 people to fill in those consulting requests. And I, for me, what, what would be the most equitable thing to do from those big consulting company, if they wanted to really make change and have an impact, is to actually identify local consultants, support local consultants, build capacity locally, And subcontract part of those work, but not just subcontracting it, but also like they are given credibility just because they are from the West sometimes, not even based on qualification. So they have that power. I'm not saying they shouldn't be involved. I'm saying they have that power. They have that credibility. And it's important that they leverage it to elevate people that don't have credibility. It's based in a room, but that are as equally qualified, and if not more, because they have the local context to add to it. So, for all those businesses and consulting practices out there that are all getting those contracts in those communities or in these countries, the ethical thing to do Is to ensure that when you're taking those contracts is how do you build equity for the community in this project, in this consulting? How do you bring money back to this community by hiring people locally and not just shrugging off and saying, Oh, they don't have anyone qualified locally. Because to be honest, I'm sure 90 percent of the time there is people qualified to do it locally. They're just not even trying to look for those people. And building capacity, long term, is more effective than it is to constantly outsource outside to Western countries. So, for me, that is, that is something I'm not saying we should discard all consulting practices that are not based locally. If they have power, they should leverage it to make sure they elevate people locally, not that they just blindly deliver whatever is asked for them. That would be. For me, the ethical way of doing like GIS consulting or any kind of consulting for that matter, not just GIS consulting. Yeah. And that's why I'm hoping that when we do season two of the podcast, that we are bringing in not just global perspectives, but a global host. So fingers crossed, because I think that it matters when people tell their own stories, when you think about, even here in the U. S., when you hear people talk about, we found an ancient, slave burial ground. This is cool. we use GIS to do all of this and it's just like, but for people whose loved ones, whose lineage goes back to those ancient burial grounds. It is not cool, right? It is sacred, and so sometimes the language we use when we tell other people's stories, it's kind of telling, the care and the concern that you take with other people's things when you come from a perspective of capitalism and that people are resources instead of people with loved ones. So in that mindset, what does it mean to use GIS for good and impactful work? And what role does storytelling play in that good, impactful work for me has been having people share their lived experiences and in the geospatial space. That would mean not just having quantitative information or 20 people were positively impacted by a program or a community event. It's having their qualitative experience shared as well. And understanding the information, not just from the quantitative side, but from a qualitative life and understanding trends there. Because we want to put a dollar value on focus on everything with you, and it is important to play the funders game. But, for example, I think with Afritec, I was reflecting last time watching Africa connect is there will be a story that I created that I will never see in my lifetime that there will be stories of people and there's already been stories of fellows telling me, oh, we met a fellow from cohort one in a coffee shop. They were just going shopping and we ended up sitting and talking for two hours. So there is this aspect of when you're doing work, you really want your work to have a ripple effect beyond what you can actually in numbers and impact because if you're doing your work and it's ending there and then there's nothing beyond that, there's no phrase that can exist and survive beyond that, that is not impactful work to me. That is short term, lived, Probably good for PR, probably good for marketing, but you've not created long term meaningful change. And that leads back to wellness. With, mental health is not openly discussed . In Mauritius, it's still very much taboo. I am very open to the fact that I have a therapist, which in the U. S. might not seem like a big thing to announce to anyone, but in Mauritius, it felt important to preface, I've had a therapist for three years. And I think that's a good way of thinking about it. You know, when you do therapy, it's not like you walk in there and they solve your life problems. It's about the long journey that you're choosing for yourself. And this is really what. Even when it comes to any kind of geospatial project or any kind of consulting project, you're aiming to have an impact that goes beyond what you will be able to understand and see and track. As much as I love good KPIs, I think we need to really sit down and think, what is the vision beyond what we can actually see? Physically track and put in a table and look at and that will be the storytelling part, sometimes. Someone is telling a good story, that germinated from that project or a connection they made for a project and I, I will say that. You know, us being here today, Jeremy, is it from you all deciding one day to, host an online homecoming instead of just doing it, like, in person? And it was doing something that ended up creating these threads of connection through distance. And we've only just recently met physically, which was amazing, but it's It's a testament to the kind of impact that we, not everyone knows this, but it creates a good story of how this initial point of contact or project can lead to so much more. And I've had someone that I met on an off star call from Madagascar meet me in Mauritius. So, you know, there is this, this idea that we can create connections through time and space. Yes. And create impact with that way in these other stories. Yes, I, I love that. And I, I always enjoy meeting members of the Northstar ecosystem in person. And it's just like, when I have my kids running around, but okay. So we are coming down to the wire here. What software packages are you using? So I I use a lot of Esri technology because I have licensing. I started with QGIS. I migrated to Esri technology mostly because I'm a big fan of a web based technology. However, I don't have all my workflows in Esri technology. I do use some R for scripting and I also use Flourish for some visualization sometime, as well as Canva. And I'm starting to look at Adobe Illustrator, which I'm interested to explore, because I am a learner. So I'm very open to, so I love this S curve of technology adoption. I am, I consider myself to be in the first portion of the curve that is early adopter of technology. My big point of interest is user experience, and for me, I always look for technology that are easy to use, apply, because my focus is capacity building. So I want technology that makes it easier and has low barrier to entry for myself and for others. Yeah. And so like on that curve, I'm like probably at the top of the curve. So I'm not a late adopter. I'm also not an early adopter and I've been in the Esri ecosystem for most of my career, and I am excited to explore other, you mentioned QGIS, I've heard of 3G IS different end user products like re grid. different user applications that felt that I'm exploring. So I'm just similar, a lifelong learner. And so I'm excited about. What's on the horizon for GIS, and especially in terms of capacity building, I'm excited to see what this next generation of GIS users, GIS professionals, folks who are graduating with GIS degrees, end up doing with the technology. Like you said, I will probably be long dead, you know, before we start to really see the, the fruits of what we're doing now today and with the Gaze podcast, but I am very hopeful. So Vero, the theme of this year's homecoming was resilience or resistance, which one is resonating with you the most or both? I will definitely say Resilience mostly because in my head, resistance, when I've gone the resistance route, and this is completely personal, I have found it to be emotionally taxing and emotionally intensive from a emotional labor perspective. And resilience is much more aligned with my mindfulness and wellness goals of So how do I learn to be more present? How do I learn to tackle, to choose my battles and how do I learn to call in people into the space where I want to be versus to call them out because I've tried the calling out perspective in the past and it made me more angry and I don't need more anger in my life. I need less anger. I know resistance works. Well, for some people, it's just not the right one for my emotional wellness and in my emotional state. Yes, I am a balance of, of both, I lean in and I lean out and I, it could happen in the same week, it could happen in the same day. Doing this work just requires. a level of resilience that you're constantly having to refuel and regenerate and, and heal, and then lean back in. So, last and the hardest question, using your knowledge of GIS and Global Dynamics, what would be your approach to surviving the zombie apocalypse? Wonderful. I love this question because I love zombie movies. I'm a big fan. I probably wouldn't rely at all on technology in that case, and I will definitely say that I would revert back to be a field person and conservation person and make sure that You know, find food, find like areas to keep myself and people in my life safe. And I always like to just make sure I keep the door closed because that's one of the most annoying things about zombie movies is someone always forgets to close the door. How hard can it be to remember to close the door when there's zombies roaming around? That seems to be a pretty recurrent theme of a lot of movies. A closed door or let me go investigate that. Weird noise. We don't need to be that curious. No, we already know there's things out there trying to get you. So, I would keep my curiosity at bay and try to survive and probably finally get into foraging like I've always said I wanted to . But yeah, I probably wouldn't care much for technology then. Yeah, people will get eaten like, do you have a signal? No, I don't have a signal. And you walk right into a zombie. well, Vero, is there anything else that we left out that is just burning in your soul to put out there in the world? I will say thank you, Aisha, for creating that space. I'm excited to continue collaborating with North Star publicly declaring that I want to continue collaborating with North Star, and I invite people to follow AfriTech Fellowship. We need support. We need funding. We need more people supporting my fellows as individuals, but also our nonprofits that we've officially registered as a nonprofit now, so I'm very excited to see how our two organizations continue to collaborate in the future. Yes, me too. And Vero, thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much, Aisha. It was amazing. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Lou Bairds, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room. And to the North Star team, thank you, Shikonda, Raisha, Clinton, and Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming Conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star Gaze, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.