Be Black, Be Bold, Be Innovative, Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. Oh, yeah. So, so yesterday Erica and I had a mini listening session to LabD's, new EP project that's out, it's called Park Walk. And so one of the key things I'm really curious to hear about and just know some of the things like her inspiration, where she draws that from, but also how she manages to fuse these traditional sounds, but also be able to modernize it. I think that's, that's something that's really stood out for me, Erica, during our listening sessions. What did you think of that, of the song I played for you yesterday? Oh, my goodness. It's the music has a haunting quality. There's the quality of the instrument, but then there's also what Labdi does with the instrument. It's very burial, but then there's also that rhythm going. So I, I enjoyed it immensely. I don't know a lot of music from East Africa. You know, I know more musicians from West Africa, but I was like, this is. This is very interesting and I enjoyed listening to it and I said I've got to, I've got to add some more love to my playlist at home and introduce some of my friends to her music as well. So thank you for turning me on to the new EP. Yeah. And also she's the only female East African or Roto player. So I'm East African, just a shout out for that as well. So yeah, I'm really excited about this conversation. And so, yeah, I think we're going to get into it. Um, so yeah, ladies and gentlemen, this is Labdi. We are so happy that you said yes to coming onto the pod today. How are you? It's good to see you. I'm good. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me really like it's such a pleasure to hear that you took time to listen to my project. It's, it's really humbling, you know, when you make music, a lot of times you forget that other people are supposed to listen to it. So it's really, really a pleasure. So thank you for having me. Thank you. And that's really interesting how you say when you make music, you forget. Other people normally would listen to it. And that's also similar to sort of podcast because I've been in podcasting for a minute. And so I think maybe for a start lab, the, um, we can briefly talk about your music and the kind of sound, uh, you actually make, you know, what, what it's been like creating for you. So maybe for a start, uh, the kind of music you make, what's that sound and what do you sing about or talk about in your music? Okay, well, first off, my name is Labdiyomis. I'm a singer, songwriter, performer, producer, composer, artist, it's a lot of things to do in one, but I'm really happy to be able to do these things. So, I play a really cool instrument called Orotu. Which is a single stringed fiddle from Western Kenya, Luwonyanza to be more specific. It's one of those instruments that is found all over in the world, uh, in different shapes and sizes, and it's made from different materials. An example would be in Ethiopia, it's called a Masinko and, uh, the strings are different in Uganda, it's called a Ndingidi. So it's very versatile and it's found all over the world. So I'm really happy to have picked it up. The kind of music I do, you know, actually I've been doing music for quite a long time and I'm really, really excited that this project came out to be the thing that I was imagining for it to be because I produced the EP myself, I composed, I did everything apart from hiring, you know, hiring the guitarist and the bassist, but the core of the project was really just me re imagining Luo culture from my own perspective. Being a Luo in this generation is probably like God knows how many generations of Luo artists have that have been here. So for me, it was, it was very important to have my experience of Luo culture at the core of my expression. And when I say that I've been doing music for a long time, it's almost like nine years, just collaborating a lot, learning a lot. One of the things that really helped me get to this point was collaboration, because in that way you, you get to really solidify your sound, you know, and that then birthed park rock. So yeah, basically whenever I do a project, no matter what project it is, I try and make sure that the core of that sounds like a young Lua lady, you know, who lives in this era. I think I'll explain that a bit further. And normally I just talk about anything that inspires me. I like to have fun with music. You know, music is very stressful. It's funny that I say this on a podcast, just like any other art, you know, there's very little support. There's, you know, it's very difficult to, to make a living out of it, but I'm grateful to be here at this point to be able to, but, um, I just try to take it to the light with a light heart and to be honest and to communicate things that are happening to me. Um, and I remember when I was writing Park Rock, I, it was on a whim. I was like, okay, I need to, I need to make an EP. And I remember I just come back. No, I was literally just landing in Ghana for a project and I was like, okay, now let's work on an EP. I didn't know where the EP was going to come from, but I knew that I needed to culminate all my emotions that I was feeling at that time. There was a lot of political strife in the country. There was a lot of heartbreak. I also had just left a really long. Relationship a couple of months before that it really was inspired by the emotions that I was feeling in myself. And that's what I try to talk about. I love to talk about people. I love to talk about women. I love to talk about girls. I love to talk about anything and always make a joke that in our traditional cultures, music was very functional. It was very purposeful, so you wouldn't find someone singing about a flower or a jug like we can nowadays. But I think I like to take that route sometimes and make it just light and hurt. So, yeah, that is very interesting. I also really love that. Uh, one of the key things that, especially one of the things you've talked about is like re imagining the Luwo culture. And now that I'm thinking of the EP and you talking about, um, the Luwo culture as a young girl, it's just like, Oh my God, now I see where that comes from. It really resonates through the EP. And so congratulations on that. Fantastic, fantastic piece of work. Thank you. I think maybe just for context, Labje talked about the Luwo culture. So this is, um, a tribe in Kenya. It's East African, and we have over 40 languages, Labdi, and so Luo is one of them. So that's basically what she's referencing. It's a local dialect in Kenya. And yes, I'll throw it back to you, Erica, on just bringing it in from your perspective. Actually, I have a question. What does Pakrok mean? You know, actually, even before we get to what Pakrok means, it really took me some time. I had an EP, but no names. So, Pakruok is um, in Lua language is self praise. It's so interesting because we, in the society that we are in now, it's like, oh, you need to be humble. In Lua culture, you're not supposed to be humble. Who are you being humble for? What are you being humble for? You know, it's, we come from a A culture that celebrates being proud, being boastful, talking about yourself and your achievements. That's the, that's the culture I come from. So that's what Park Rock is about. And the first song Park Rock is literally me praising myself. I'm basically saying I'm so cool. I love this. Is that true for both men and women in Lowell culture? Very much. Okay. Very much. Fascinating. Coming from the United States and being the age that I am, I would say that is not a familiar sensation here, especially for women. Men, yes. Less so for women. In fact, women until very recently here had been counseled to, you know, lay back. Don't sing your own praises. Don't toot your own horn. So this is fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. Yes, I think I think you should you should try it for a few times. It's quite it's quite thrilling like just to just to be boastful. It's really, it's really fun. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you're here today as a follow up to being an artist during the 2024 homecoming event for North Star of GIS and you shared your music With the North Star audience. So, um, not only are we thanking you for being here for the podcast, but this is another thank you for having participated in the 2024 Homecoming event. And so the theme for 2024 was Art Afrofuturism and Geography. What part of the theme speaks to you and what was your experience like being, providing the art? Portion of the theme to the homecoming audience really, to be honest, I was just, I'm just so excited to make music all the time. I'm happy that your team asked me to, to make music for such a huge project that I, I did a lot of research and I really love what you do. So I was really just happy to share, you know, and to just share my, my sounds that I produce. It's just like fun, you know, I'm just happy to share music and I think it was well received and. I really enjoy that. It's always so good to make music and to have people just receive and not critique it in such a, you know, especially like as a composer, you send something in and then someone's like, no, tweak this, tweak that. It's so refreshing to send something in and for it to be accepted and just enjoy the little piece of music that I had to share. So I really want to say thank you for that opportunity. With regards to the first question that you ask, I feel like I resonate so much with all of these three key points in many ways, the art, the Afrofuturism and the geography, especially because my background into making music really started off by my being an artist. I come from a lineage of artists. I'm a trained painter and, and that also kind of, really meshed into the universe that I've been trying to create with my music. If you, I don't know if you have watched, uh, parkour up the music videos on YouTube, if you haven't, when you get time, please do for a long time, I was trying to just make it about the music and completely forgetting about my artistic self and my visual self expression, but then for this project, I made it a point to really delve into that world and create a magical world that then made sense to me as a Luo. musician and to make it so that the people from abroad, the diaspora Kenyans who have no attachment to the local culture can at least see what that kind of looks like. So in that way, I was meshing the visual aspect of my music and my self identity with my music. And that's how the art came to be together. And I really have been enjoying that, that part of my musical career. I'm just expressing both the visual and the musical part and bringing them together to create this universe that is familiar to me. That I'm sharing people who have no idea what that would look like. Yeah, yeah. And that's why maybe it sounds haunting. I think even some of the artwork is kind of haunting, which is a lot of fun. And then Afrofuturism, I feel like that's a theme that has been occurring even in the past. For me to be here, it means that there have been a lot of developments. That have been not only visual, but also textural, also sound, you know, sonic elements that have added into the vision that is Labdi, the artist that is Labdi. My production, I learned production from a couple of friends and I feel like already by virtue of being a traditional musician, you know, an Urrutu player who's producing, I think that's already like something so wild, you know, 10 years ago, that would be, you know, Almost like a dream and I really would love for a lot more traditional musicians to be able to mesh their traditional art or their authentic aesthetic with music production and think about it beyond and think about their contributions towards AI and all of these other things, right? With regard to geography, the Luo people, the language that is Luo, Luo means to follow. We, the Luo, came from Sudan, so the Luo means to follow. What we did is to follow the Nile. And I feel like the part of my journey that I am in right now is to kind of trace the roots of where we followed and the music that we adjusted or we kind of changed. Because, for example, my, my instrument. It's different in Sudan from where Barel Ghazal is and where Kisumu is, where my family lives. It's very different. So, all of these things really inform my musical expression. I don't know that I've answered that question, but yeah, that's what I have to say about those three things. That's a very powerful way of looking at it because I hadn't even thought about that. I have a two part question. The initial bit where you talked about where you draw inspiration and you talked about that. Yeah. Heartbreaks and those political strife and the political strife. I think I got stuck at that point because I think where we are as a country and globally, um, and I think I want to get your thoughts on how you view your music when it comes to emerging societal issues and the role of an artist, right? Cause I know I'm talking from the world of mapping for me as a cartographer, when I create maps. One of the things I look at is what it speaks to and what is it able to outline better and not just being dots on a map. And so I'm curious about you, how you view yourself when it comes to society and the issues we are struggling with on a day to day, what, what does that mean to you with the Orutu and the instrument and you as an artist within this world, right? In Kenya, in East Africa, in Africa with what's happening and young people, what, what does that look like for you? How would you phrase that? Yeah. I really do believe that the role of an artist is to shine a mirror back to reflect the times. So in this aspect, especially because of how dangerous it has been in Kenya, it's, it's always difficult to be outright with the issues that have been happening, but I do find myself at an advantage because I can express those things without being outright about it and without making it. a dangerous situation for myself. I know there's a lot of activists who've been out there doing the work and putting their lives in danger. And I've had this conversation with a lot of other artists about how we should go about talking about the political situation. I think at the end of the day, our role is to communicate and educate. Another role would be to give people something else to think about. I think that's a very important role. Music is very important in that way, that it distracts. But also that destruction should not come at the cost of people's well being. So it's just really just about finding a balance between those two things. I think I also use my social media as a platform to talk about these issues more directly and to, to retweet and repost. And you know, everything that's been happening in this country, you know, but it's just, I think my role, my role, if you really, really sit down and listen to the music, like, uh, one of the songs talks about. Uh, a person that I don't want to talk to anymore, but in reality, I'm really talking about the government. I don't want to be part of this government anymore, you know? So that's how I'm layering the political ideologies in the music without making it so harsh that people can't consume it. That's very powerful. And then maybe the second part, the two part to that was, you talked, you briefly talked about technology and emerging technology that you're excited about. And you briefly touched on AI and how that can be used. And so I'm curious on, are there other components of tech that you're really excited about? And you also looking into fusing that into your music and into your art? Oh, yes, very much. You know, the Urutu is very Very tactile. I don't even know how to explain it. It's, it's, it's a very basic instrument. And what that does is it makes it difficult to travel with. It makes it difficult to share with people because one small thing can really destroy the whole thing. Like if it, if, if it's in a very moist place, it can't play. There's countries where it's difficult to produce sound on the Urutu because the wire is made of, you know, It's a very specific kind of metal string. So if it contracts, it's like, it's, it's very difficult to work with. So one of the things that I'd love to do is to find ways or use technology to improve the instrument such that it's, it's easier to sell, easier to buy, it's easier to handle and it lasts longer. Now, I don't know whether that means using different materials, of course, that requires a lot of research, but I don't know whether that means using carbon. What does that mean for the environment? And all of these things, these are discussions that I've been having with people and also asking myself what ways to better the instrument with regards to AI. I've done a couple of projects that really ended up being extremely hilarious because I'm sure you know by now that, um, AI has been trained on like millions and millions of pop songs. So it's so easy for AI to create a pop song. So there's a project I, I was, I was brought into, um, and what we did was we, we trained the AI on Orutu lines and traditional Lugos songs. And the AI, the AI had no idea what to do with these new melodies, with these new rhythms and all of these things. And that really puts Africa at an advantage, not just Africa, but all of these Indigenous communities at an advantage because AI cannot figure out what is going on with these things. So the question is, do we want AI to figure that out or do we want to keep that to ourselves? These are all of these, these, these questions that I've been asking myself alongside other musicians who play similar instruments to me. So it's just. We're just trying to figure out where we, where we want to sit. Do we safeguard our, our, um, our authentic music? Do we share it with the world? What does that mean? Does it mean we lose jobs? You know, all of these questions that happened before tractors came in and you were like, Oh, you know, so that's really where we're at. That is so thought provoking because, and you've just touched on A component that's like a conversation that's been happening globally on the biases that I might come with, but also how it might neutralize and dilute all our cultures and sort of create these ambiguity across the globe. So that's a really interesting component to touch on. I think. Yeah. That's a really thought provoking. I think we should all sit on that and just think about what do we want ingested? What do you want to keep? What do you want to use as synthetic? I think that's really powerful. Well, you know, so I've been listening to you. What I am thinking about is you made a very specific choice, right? A RUTU is not, as you said, it's not an easy instrument to travel with. It's a, well, it's a simple instrument in being one string. It's a complex instrument. as well. So it sounds like you have experienced challenges with the instrument, but what challenges have you faced being a woman who chose to play a rutu? Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. I mean, the first issue that I faced really was just, there's very few teachers for an instrument that's played everywhere in the world. There's just like a handful of people. And my teacher actually, the man who was supposed to teach me was too busy, funny enough. So he just taught me how to. To handle and take care of the instrument just so it's like, Oh, don't let it sit in water or, you know, those, the basic care methods. And then I had to sit at home and teach myself how to play it because no one in my family plays the urutu, you know? So that already was a struggle, but it took me quite a while to get the hang of the instrument. I think it took a lot of obsession with the sound for me to get to this point that I'm comfortable with it, but then more politically. I remember going once to a party and someone was very disrespectful. I've had a lot of people who've been quite disrespectful, but at this particular party, this guy was like attacking me. And he was just like, why are you playing this instrument this way? And I literally had to pack because I felt unsafe. I've been to an airport and I was telling some guy, just making conversation and I was telling him, Oh, I play Orutu, he was a Luo also. He was like, why are you playing this instrument? It's meant for us. So if you play this instrument, what are we going to play? Where is the logic, sir? You know, where is the logic, you know? So there's been a bit of, of, of resistance, especially when I really started seven, eight years ago. But now I think people are just learning to get to it. There's, there's nothing that they can do about it anymore. It's, you know, it exists. I'm playing it. What are you going to do? I do not know other Urutu players, but when I was watching your videos, you said, I'm a producer. I'm a composer. I'm a singer. I'm a songwriter. You did not say I'm an entertainer, which you clearly are, right? It's, um, and I was like, well, how the way Labdi moves through space and in this world. Is very different from what I imagine a male or two player would do it. You have a distinct presence as a woman. So it's it is fascinating to watch you now. It's going to make me want to listen to some other listen and see some other route to players to see, you know, how how do they move through the world as opposed to how you move through the world. But it's it is fast. You've made a very purposeful. Choice, right? You didn't just say, I want to play any instrument. I want to play that specific instrument. So you must've heard something in the instrument that made you think it was for you. Yeah. Well, let's just trace back because Urutu was played in very specific settings. Uh, I want to reiterate that African musicology and I'll say Lua musicology and instruments were very functional. Those, nothing was just for vibes, you know. There was no thing about random things. So Orutu was played by men. I mean, it was music, okay, women had a very specific role to play in music, and men had their own specific role to play in music. We can separate those two. And all of these, and both groups, because of the predominantly existing ones, given certain instruments to play according to their sexual orientation, let me say that. So in that case, Oroto was played by men within the setting of drinking and like in preparation for wars, but it was, it was really done by men to men played by men for men during drinking sessions, where they would sing. Uh, or applaud each other and sing to each other in jest. Like do the pack rock that I was talking about earlier and be like, Oh, you're great because of this and this and this. So that's why it was played by men. Women on the other hand, had their own instruments and their own settings. Like during bath or when someone is switching from adolescence to being an adult, so that's the context within which most instruments are played. So given that context, Orutu was only meant for men. Right. And my playing of the Urutu is because my uncle told me, he's a musician. He told me that, Oh, I needed a traditional instrument to compliment my voice. I went to a vocal school and they were like, Oh, your voice is too African. It's not popping up. So please, please leave. So I was like, okay. And he was just like, okay, it's not bad, but what you can do is you can get a traditional instrument that maybe compliments your voice. And that was such a beautiful thing for him to tell me, because I went to university and then I saw two instruments, Nyatiti, which is an eight stringed lyre, and I saw the Uruto. And the, the instructor who was selling these instruments was just like, oh. Actually, Orotu was meant to be played by men only, so I don't know if you really want this. I was like, you know what? Now I need that instrument. That's the one. That's my virtual queen everywhere. So things fire a woman, tell her she can't do something, right? Yeah. You know, just out of being a rebel. So that's why I picked it up. And I play it really just for entertainment purposes. And I don't say I'm an entertainer because it's really part of our Luo culture to be entertained. Even when someone comes home, you're supposed to entertain them. You know, it's part of our culture. So it's not a role that I play outside of myself. Yeah. So that's what I love it. Thank you. I think you briefly touched on this, but I think it would be interesting and quite insightful to all get your thoughts on what would you say are the most underappreciated aspects of what you do from your perspective, um, based on the different roles you have, right? Singers, songwriter, vocalist, um, producer, um. You know, from the outward looking in, we don't think about or talk about as society or as individuals who listen to this art. That's really incredible. Thank you for that question. I've really never been asked that. That's so lovely because I've never thought about it, but this is something we go through every day. I say music is a very thankless job, but also very thankful. It's such a weird balance because if people like your music, they really like it. But if they don't, they really don't. And they will tell you. Lady, that song sucks, you know, and it's so sad, especially like if you work so hard on something, it's like, so there's that just the fact that it's so criticizable. It's so difficult because you're putting yourself out there. You're being very vulnerable. It's a very vulnerable thing to do to put art. You're making things out of air, like thin air. And I remember thinking, even when I was making my EP, this is the second EP. I was like, I don't know if they would like it. So for me, it's important that I really like the projects that if someone doesn't like it, I'd be like, Hey, okay, cool. But I like it, you know? So that's, that's good enough for me. Another thing is, wow, there's, there's very little money when it comes to like being an artist is. You know, when they say starving artists, I never thought this was true, but it's, that's the journey, you know, I'm not saying that's my reality or a lot of artists reality, but it's, it's not like you don't get a salary for, for music, unless you're hired in a studio. And that means you're not doing your own music unless you're hired by a label and labels are dying now because artists have realized that they can be really big. From the comfort of their own homes, you know, you don't need all of these corporations taking away 90 percent and giving you crumbs. Right. So it's also harder to get to a label now. So, yeah, um, I think those are really the two main things, just the money and the, and being vulnerable and the critique, but other than that, if you're passionate, I feel like it can be really worth your while it, I think music saves me every day when I do it, when I'm sad or whatever, when I make music, I feel very happy. So yeah, it's a good balance. You just said something very interesting. You said music saves you. And I'm one of those people who believes that music saves us. So there are people who think that the other things are more important. I see music and art as being just as essential to us as food and shelter, right? These are, they are integral parts. Um, and I think art. and music make the world a better place. Let's flip the script. Is there a role for technology to make the world a better place or not? I think human beings cannot exist without technology. That's just how we are wired. We are wired to make our lives better every day, no matter what, even to the detriment of ourselves. Um, I think Our values have changed. I don't think technology is the problem. We are moving farther away from what is good. We see it every day in our countries. You see by how the governments are being run, how people's priorities and all of these things. So definitely technology is supposed to help us be better, feel better, you know, with illnesses and diseases, you know, all of these, all of these discoveries have been made. A lot of them have been made through technology and we'd be dying from some basic diseases, you know? So I just think our values have changed, not for the better, for the worse. And I think capitalism is a big driver of us just not being in a good mental or spiritual space. I really do wish it was different and that's why we make music. Thank you for that. And so speaking of that Labdi, and the theme Afrofuturism, feminism, art, and the intersection of all that, and you just talked about I'm curious to tap into your imagination and if you were to paint an ideal world, a utopia, what would that look like? We're talking about Afrofuturism. What does that look like for Labdi? That is so stressful because I'd be asking that. Oh my God. Oh, what does the ideal future for Labdi feel? I think the essence of it would be freedom and self respect for everybody. Um, Yeah, because if we respected ourselves more and if we had love for ourselves, it would be easier for us to love each other. And, in turn have the best interests for each other. I think lack of that is why we're in this situation right now. We're all so selfish, all of us, myself included, and we're losing touch of ourselves. We're losing touch with the values that we had before. It's so crazy. Like we had this thing online, Swedengate. I don't know whether you've heard about it, Swedengate, where like, uh, in, in Europe, and I've experienced this myself also, like when you go to Europe and this is no, like, I'm not. Insulting anybody, but your kid comes over and eats at their friend's house, and then someone sends you a bill to pay for the meal that the kid had. For me, as an African, that's crazy. Of course. You know what I'm saying? I don't know what that's the same thing. Yeah, and I can't even blame them. I can't blame the person who's asking for the bill because life has become so expensive. Why is it so expensive? And there's food. We have land, you know, all of these things. It's nothing. There's a disparity between what we have, what we can afford. There's just, you know, it's just too much. But I think, yeah, it's just about being free, letting everyone do what they want, you know? Just letting people be let. People love who they want, let people do what they want, loving yourself and, and putting other people's interests at heart as well. And that's the core, and then everything else will, will bloom from there. I don't think it's possible to have a great life or a great Afrofuturistic world if we don't have that. That was a great question, Yarouba. Um, I want to steer us back to something that I think of when I think of your art and geography. So I've been around a number of musicians and here in the U. S., one of the biggest challenges they encounter is how to obtain distribution for their product. And you have a new EP that's come out. I heard you mention that you were in Ghana when you started working on it. So you were in a different physical place than the place that is your home. How are you planning to Push your music out into the physical world. Is it? Is it? Is your audience primarily in Kenya? Is it outside of Kenya? How? How do you distribute and how? What is the geographic footprint of? Um, I have a distributor actually, which is great. It's, uh, the company is called Camille Co. Um, she's so great. I just remember sending her a project. She was like, Oh, this is great. So I'll work on it. So I'm, I'm so blessed in that way, but I do say I make music for Africans. There's a misconception that when you do quote unquote, very debatable world music. Is that, oh, you're doing music for the West. Let me tell you, COVID showed us that you need to be at home. You need to be at home and you need to create a system that works at home. Because if you cannot fly out and your market is primarily, um, Eurocentric and American based, then what are you going to eat when the world shuts down? And all of us were in that predicament. And that gave me a lot of perspective. Because right in the thick of COVID, I went to one of the local artists shows and it was packed! Really? I could not believe my eyes. I remember going home thinking, oh, I must be so silly, you know, making music and distributing it out there, out there. No, that's, that's really unfair. And that's why Park Rock is what it sounds like. I was like, I'm making music. For the Luo community here, I'm making music for people who can relate to what I'm doing. If it goes outside, that's great, but that's, that's not the point. I want to have a genuine footprint at home. So that's my primary market and I'm not just limiting, limiting it that to that. I want to also be able to tour and all of these things. So I want to just market it as much as I can. And that's the thing about music. You just have to do the best you can and reach as many markets and where the hammer hits. You go there, you go where you love. So yeah, I'm not limited to anything. I really want my people to love the music and to appreciate it because that's the only way to grow. And that's what happened in West Africa. That's why their music blew up is because they made music for themselves and the diaspora West Africans were like, Oh, this is, this is us. And they made it big. So. That's my strategy. Let's, let's hope it'll work. All right. I love it. I, you know, I came back from Nigeria and I started hearing Nigerian music in public places here in the U. S. And I was like, wait, what? In a dentist's office or a doctor's office. It was fascinating to me. I was like, oh my, this is a whole new age that we're in. So, but yeah, I love this idea. You're, you're doing something for. Yourself and everybody else jump in where they can get it. Right. If they love it. Good if they don't know what you need to do for you and for your for your audience at home. I love it. Yeah. Um, 1 of the other things that also stuck with me is when you're talking about the root 2 the origin of the culture. One of the things you said is it would be really interesting to trust the roots of what they followed along the Nile, but also how the instrument is being referred to in different locations. For example, Ethiopia is completely different. And just, and so from a mapping nerd who loves creating maps, I'm curious on, is that something you would take up in just looking at how mapping can enable you understand? How Orutu has, how the Orutu has evolved over time, how different cultures are using it. Um, you know, following the Luo culture as well, how you've traveled getting to, to Nyanza, Kenya, because I know that's also a big thing, right? I know for myself as well, these, uh, path we followed and I, I would die to have someone map that out for me. And so I'm curious on what are your thoughts on around mapping? And sort of the literality of it, like us being able to just map where we are from and how we've moved and how your instrument has evolved. Have you thought about that? Is that something you would be open to exploring? Thank you for that question Nyairo. You know, maps are very, very political. Especially in Africa where there was a group of people who said, Oh, we're going to draw for these people lines, you know? I think the funniest story I had was, uh, people were laying fish traps on this side of the river and then they come back and they're told, Oh, now you're in a different country. And so they can't access the fish traps anymore. I think the role of maps in our livelihoods as Africans and the role of maps as a Kenyan, all of a sudden you can't cross because it's a different country. So maps are very personal for me because Other people who are not supposed to create these boundaries for us did that. That being said, I love maps. I'm not the biggest map nerd, but I live with a map nerd. So I know a lot about maps that I probably would never even have thought to know. And yes, very much because this is something I really want to do. It's very passionate and it's, it really aligns with my journey. To find out where the instrument came from and where it is now, how it has evolved over the years. It's a project that I really want to take on and I have to involve MAPS because which other way can I tell this story in a way that people can see? So yeah, maybe I'll be contacting you, maybe, who knows? So yes, very much part of my journey, MAPS. That would be really dope. I think that's really exciting. And yes, please contact myself and Erica. We're happy to see how we can support to map out the Orutu and how it's evolved over time and the different cultures. I think we are coming to the end, Erica, and I'm wondering. What was 2024 like and what was it in your bingo cards, Labdi? Oh my goodness, 2024 was wild. I don't know what your thoughts are on spirituality, but I'm really grateful to the universe and to God for coming this far. Like every year it gets better and better and I'm always still shocked. Like, like I said, for example, last year I traveled so much so that my, my house was like a motel. Just come and Change back then, change back then. I never would have thought to go to Asia for a project. I never would have thought to do a lot of the things. I went to One Beat. It's an exchange program that I had been applying for nine years and I finally got it in 2024. And at the same time, I got to be part of a project called AMMP. It's another exchange project. That was in the U S and it was so amazing. I was just, just like, well, and to be able to release an EP that I self produced so wild, you know, so that was not in my 2024 bingo cards, because when I started the year, I didn't have an EP. I had no idea I was going to do an EP, but at the end of the year I did. So I'm really just so grateful for. All the support and I'm so excited for 2024. If anything, that has shown me that I just need to relax and let the universe do its thing. Yeah, just the journey. Yeah. Congratulations on getting into the one week program and all the other projects you've been involved with. I think, yeah, that's such a huge milestone. And so I'm happy for you. I always like to say, I like fangirling. I'm always on your page, just fangirling and pushing you on. And so we're cheering you on and congratulations on what you've been doing with art and music and talking about all these different things happening in society. So, is this the time where we should give some paku? Is that right? Give some appreciation If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more about Northstar of GIS, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at GIS Northstar. We want to thank our sponsors of the 2024 Homecoming event, our institutional partner ReGrid, and our sponsors New Light Technology, Afrotech, and Black at Work. We'd like to thank our keynotes, Tara Roberts, Linda Harris, Dr. Paulette Hines Brown, and Vernice Miller Travis. We'd like to thank Howard University and the staff at the Interdisciplinary Building and Photography by Imagery by Chioma. We also want to thank our guests for trusting us with their stories. Tara, Linda, Paulette, Christian, Abraham, Jason, Vernice, Stella, Beye, Karen. Nikki, George, Frank, Labdi, Toussaint, Victoria, and the HBCU Environmental Justice Technical Team. And finally, thank you to the North Star team and our wonderful volunteers. We are your hosts of the Season 2 of the North Staggers Podcast, which is based on the 2024 Homecoming Conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.