Be Black, Be Bold, Be Innovative, Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. I'm sitting here with Frank Romo on day two of the 2024 North Star GIS Homecoming. And Frank just came off of the stage doing a really exciting presentation with one of his young mentees. Um, it was lovely to hear you and the Anthony talk about the work that you two do together in your role as a mentor for him and for others in the communities that you've served, tell me Frank about why it was important for you to participate in Homecoming this year. I'm so thankful to, to be here. The folks who put on homecoming last year, Northstar team, everybody from, they've just been so supportive in, in my own work, but also to the GIS community at large, and I think our values are aligned where we're trying to inspire the next generation, making sure that. We have more students of color, more underrepresented people in the space, because the way I see it, our communities have a lot of this knowledge already of how to navigate, how to understand how cities work, how neighborhoods work, and they are the people who should be at the table making the maps, making the decisions, and These tools that we have here, the geospatial tools, they're the next phase in how we plan and impact our communities. And I think North Star has done a really great job of ensuring that we bring all those people together in one place. And when we're able to do that, you can see the vibrant conversations that are happening, the interests, the shared interest, the alignment, and I mean, even just being here for the past two days. I've made so many great connections where folks are like, we ought to do this together. And it's that ambition, that passion, that energy, I think they really create the space for that. And so I knew I wanted to come back again. I've been fascinated to see how the technology has changed over the years to the point where you really put some pretty advanced tools in the hands of people who may not ever have had any exposure to GIS in the past, right? If you've got a smartphone, you can be collecting data, right? That's right. You should not consider yourself a geographer. But you can be engaged in spatial technology in that way. But tell me, how did you initially get involved in GIS? I initially got involved in GIS, if we want to talk about it from the non digital side, was when I was community organizing. When we were community organizing, did a lot of work in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. And, um, I have some ties down there, so I've been there, been doing work there for many years. And when we were first responding to some of the issues in the community, some of the needs in the community after the hurricane, first thing we did was put a map on the table and identify where were the affected communities, where were the community leaders that needed support, where the community leaders then knew Mrs. Davis needs something over here on this block, Mr. Robinson needs something on that block. And that was just common approach for us in the organizing work to look at a map, understand what doors we're knocking on, understand who we're trying to reach. Well, fast forward, I was at Columbia University studying during Hurricane Sandy, right, right prior to Hurricane Sandy, working with the community of Red Hook, I do a lot of mentorship. We were working with youth, had an urban farm down there. It was great. We were trying to make sure that the food got from the farm to the, to the grocery stores, to the boutique shops and things like that. Again, for us, we focus a lot on entrepreneurship. And so that was right in alignment with what we were doing. Then Hurricane Sandy rolled in and the next day all the crops were gone. So again, my community organizing experience kicked in. We went out there, I was going to create a map just to understand where the impact was, even just a hand drawn one. And that was at the point I was taking my GIS course. And so we actually went out there with GPS units and we collected data and we were able to feed that data back to our database and then be able to share that with the community organizations that we were working with to help them understand where they needed to put their resources. So again, to me, it's about understanding how geospatial can supplement the work that's already being done by community leaders, by folks who are trying to make an impact. And in both of those scenarios, that was very much an emergency response type deal. And when we're talking about emergency response, the people who are next to you, the neighbors, the moms, the uncles, the aunts, they're the ones who are going to need support, and they're the ones who are going to be providing that support in those first hours. So where we as organizers come in and tech enthusiasts or civic tech leaders, we realized that by putting both of these things together, the organizing work and the technology, there was a real big opportunity to do exactly what you said is. Empower the communities and the folks who might not be as tech savvy or might not know how to use it with just a few clicks, with a few little training sessions, they were able to go out there and collect data and be able to feed that data to an ecosystem that then helped us serve the community better. Fantastic. I love hearing these stories because it makes it so real and having worked at Esri and, and help with some of the emergency response. Teams, one of the things that I'm always thinking about is emergency preparedness, right? Because there's something else coming. Absolutely. How do we equip the communities that you're working with now to be better prepared for the next challenge that they're going to face? And what are you looking for from us as Northstar? to help support the work that you do in that arena. So first, I would say 100 percent exactly what you're talking about. For the preparedness piece, I feel like a lot of the communities I work with, we are using, unfortunately, geospatial almost as a last resort, right? When we've worked in communities where we're trying to stop a polluting corporation, or we're trying to incentivize a new business to come in, or whatever it might be, it's almost always, we're using it as a last resort. What we're trying to do now is bring that to the forefront as A proactive step. Hey, where are your community resources? Where are the food pantries? Do we have that on a map? Is that something that is accessible? Can we print it off and hand it out to people? Because again, these are the ways that we're able to prepare for what is coming next. And so to answer your second question about how North Star, I think they have been a force for good in with our organization, being able to support us. The leaders that here at North Star have been super supportive of the work that we've done. We've had meetings, strategizing, trying to learn how we can collaborate together. But again, it really is providing that space because without the space here, I would not have an outlet for the mentees like DeAnthony and an experience for him to present today, like we did together is so vastly important to his. Maturity, growth, development, and that's, I think, again, where Northstar provides that space. And that is not something we have a lot in the geospatial community for us, for our communities. I'm so impressed with the way you bring somebody else along with you, to be quite honest. We can't be real allies for anybody else unless we're enabling them to have a seat at the table. So it's one thing to say, I'm an ally of any community, or of women, or fill in the blank, I'm an ally, but unless you are willing to. Not just have a seat at the table yourself, but to bring somebody else along with you. I don't think you are being a real ally. So I am, my hat is off to you, my praises and blessings for the work that you are doing to bring others along. And I was jotting down notes about The number of college hours earned, uh, college credits earned, money that you've helped put in the pockets of young people. I had a chance to speak to D'Anthony and he talked about the additional opportunities that have been made available to him. He's now a freshman in a college far away from where he grew up. And that is something that would not have been possible for him had he not stepped up but also been given the opportunities to step up. To put money in the pocket of a young person who doesn't have so many resources is humongous. Talk a little bit more with you about creating those opportunities for young people to. Earning college credits is like putting money in their pockets, but putting cats on the table. Talk to me about that, would you? Yeah, so, again, my background, back in California, I was a labor organizer for a long time. And so for me, work is very important for people's livelihoods, for them to put food on the table, buy the medicine they need to make sure that they can stay alive. And I think I recognize that still, and that's a through line in a lot of my work. We can. Advocate for things we can stop, we can try to stop the communities from polluting. We can stop the companies from polluting other things. We, again, when we are organizing, a lot of times we're fighting against something. And I had this aha moment again, where I was like, okay, a little tired of fighting. We got to do a better job of building. And for me, building is providing people to have the ability to fish for themselves. I think the money that has been put in students pockets, uh, again, I won't even take any credit for that. That's not me. That was them. They, he, DeAnthony and his colleagues, they We're led by other leaders like the program lead, Mr. Segrist, who put opportunities in front of them. I think that's the best part about our program at Frederick Douglass in Detroit, is that we have so many people like myself who are surrounding these young men, who do see their opportunity for growth and leadership and say, all right, I'm going to take, I'm going to take a chance on you. And we're going to. Hire you. We're going to have you be an intern. We're going to hear, check out this grant, check out this opportunity. And of course we're there to help them resume, whatever it might be. But at the end of the day. I know that providing opportunities to have students earn money definitely in fact, not only their lives, but their family's lives. When they're able to bring that money home, when they're able to create that endogenous growth, use that money to support the Detroit economy. That is what we're trying to build. Because again, it's not just about the GIS. It's not just about that student. It's about the impact that student can make when they go home, when they go as community leaders, folks like DeAnthony. And one of my former interns as well, who was part of the presentation, he wasn't there, but he was in the presentation Zailong, both of these young men. They're leaders in multiple aspects, right? They're not just leaders at our school. And so I recognize that they're leaders in their homes, they're leaders in their communities. And so in order to lead, I know that they're going to need some capital to get it done. And so how do we ensure that they have not only the intangible resources, like the mentorship and things like that, but how do we actually provide them real resources that are going to help them eat today, help them get on the bus, help them transport to and from places. to make sure that they can continue to grow and have those opportunities because I guarantee when DeAnthony goes back to Norfolk State, he's going to talk about this experience. He's going to carry that with him and he's going to go inspire more students. And that's what it's about. Again, I have to say this. There was a moment this morning that blew my mind during your presentation with DeAnthony. So here he is. He's a freshman in college, right? He's not an upperclassman. He just started his college experience. What, 12 weeks ago, and he talked about going back to Frederick Douglass Academy, his high school, and helping to mentor somebody else, and I was like, wow, my head almost exploded, because I did not expect that degree of self confidence, and again, the willingness to bring somebody else along with that, right? He's so young, but he's so impassioned already and so committed. To doing not just for himself, but doing for somebody else. So for those of you who missed the Homecoming 2024 event, you are missing a great event. And you're missing the opportunity to hear people like Framing and DeAnthony talk about the ways in which they are helping to make the world a better place. And that's, I want to bring this back to asking you a question. How do you think GIS can best be used to make the world a better place? It's a great question. I feel like, Any one of our projects you look at, that's what you'll find is how we're trying to impact communities. We do work on toxic hazards in our schools. We do work on gun violence reduction. We're doing work on the opioid epidemic. We are providing data and resources to help communities illuminate the issues in their neighborhood. And again, as I said in my presentation, it's not just about Issues. We don't want to come from a deficit based perspective. When we work with communities, we focus on an asset based approach. Okay. That might not be ideal, but what are the assets and resources that we do have in the community? And that's where I go back to my presentation. It's about the people for me. Geospatial technology is about power. It's about providing access to power, which is through resources, through data, through workforce development, through training, all of that. And so when we're able to work on a project and illuminate some of the data, train some of the people, help them become empowered to tell their own stories and to help them problem solve the things in their community. They are the ones who have the information and the know how. So for me, I just see myself like. Little kind of come in, I'll coach them up, put them in the right direction and then, you know, got to let them, let them do the thing because they know when I say they, I'm talking about the students, the community organizations we work with, the community leaders we work with. I am not a community expert in that community. I am not, I do not know exactly how we address these issues, but I do know how to bring community stakeholders together. I do know how to facilitate those discussions. I do know how to. To provide technical resources and strategy to folks so that they can then collaborate with one another to make that impact. And we've seen that in our work in California, where we've trained over 30 nonprofit organizations and the use of GIS for social impact. We had, we just completed our GIS for good curriculum project with a central magnet school in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. And we're also, um, working, doing a lot of work in the Bronx where we're working with the business improvement district. Multiple high schools, multiple elementary schools, and it's all encompassing. It's sometimes it's GIS training. Sometimes it's community education. Sometimes it's just bringing everybody to the table and having some food and talking about what's going on. But we are leveraging this tool to try to help inspire more people to see that they have agency in their communities, because that's what this tool allows you to do when somebody sees a problem in their community, sees an issue they want fixed, sometimes they're like, I don't know what to do. What can I do? I'm just one person. I say, I see that a lot with students. Students are often talked at, they're not asked, what do you want to see change? How can you make a difference? And with our programs, we really try to put the user at the center of it and say, you have knowledge, you are a community asset and resource. How do we leverage your experience, your expertise to try to make a change? And through that, They find agency, they become empowered, they get confidence. And I think you see that in people like D'Anthony. I love you talking about an asset based approach, right? Because I think you're quite right. Sometimes people think, what can I do? What do I have to offer? And they do have resources and assets and capabilities that they can leverage to advance their own cause. It's not just a handout. They have as much to contribute to whatever the issue is as any other person. And having been born in the Boogie Down, I'm really happy that you were at work in LeBron. Absolutely. Um, let me ask you this. What are the ways in which you GIS community? Is it social media? We know you're at this conference. What are, what are some ways in which you interact with the GIS community? I think one of the things that I believe What is happening right now is that, um, you know, Romo GIS and our work that we're doing has been able to really become a thought leader in the GIS space. And again, we're right there with folks and the leadership at Northstar because we're pushing the boundaries of geospatial. I think too often times it's, all right, here's another bike lane. All right, here's another zoning map. And that's, that's great and all, but we have to understand that these are, these are really powerful tools and being able to push the limits and the boundaries. And showing people what can be done, I think, to me, that is our role. We got to continue pushing the limit so that folks can see. Oh, I never thought you could map that. Oh, I never thought that fourth and fifth graders would have feedback on how to improve the community. And again, it was because nobody asked, right? We, I firmly believe that we in the broader GIS community represent what. A lot of the folks here at this conference are interested in doing is pushing the boundaries to ensure that more underrepresented people have access to these tools for professional opportunities and education, but more importantly, to bring these tools to the community so that they can make that change themselves. And anybody in that room, you, you hear them talk about this is a tool that can can help my community. This is something that can make an impact now in my community. And so being able to work with folks like that and push those narratives. Across the geospatial space is really important because without the work that we're doing, Northstar's doing other organizations, it would just stay, here's another bike map. Here's another zoning map. And that's, again, that's important. I'm not knocking transportation or anything like that, but there are a lot more issues and opportunities that we could be addressing with these tools. And when folks that look like us and represent the community and look like the community that they represent are able to be at the table and use those tools, that really makes an impact. I want to, can I say one, I want to say one thing. Um. One of the things that I've really, I heard Clinton say earlier too, I ask some of those difficult questions sometimes, and I'm right there with him, because we have to be able to push, and I mean that very like, A little aggressively, like we have to be able to push the different narrative and the different topics because otherwise there's not enough of us in the space to, to, to be able to make that loud of a, of a movement yet. And so that's why I focus on training more people because as long as we train more students of color, as long as we train more underrepresented groups, they're going to bring those voices to the table like DeAnthony. And you heard how powerful he was when he was talking and people responded to that and were listening to that because when they hear students say it, when they hear younger people say it, all of a sudden people are like, Oh, I never knew that they had that perspective. And again, it's because they didn't ask. But what it really is coming down to is that we have to change the way we talk about these things because too often times it's this top down approach. Urban planning, architecture, whatever it might be, it's this top down approach and what we're trying to do is Create a new structure where we have this grassroots approach and that's where our organizing work really gets infused into the geospatial work. So one of the things that happened this past week was that there was a gentleman who reached out to me. He was like, Hey, I think I'm doing some community organizing work. I made a map about toxic hazards and I want to share with the community. How do I do this? And so I have people reaching out to me now asking how did they do this work? And to me. That's really awesome. That's where we can have even more of an impact because the more leaders I can inspire to do this type of work, the greater the impact is that ripple effect. Last thing I'll say is that we always talk about redlining and the ways that our communities have been disenfranchised. And when redlining was happening, we know that there weren't people like us who were drawing those maps or creating those maps or making those decisions. One of the things I'm here to do with the GIS community is to remind them that. Unless we're invested in the community, unless we know what's going on in the community, then we can be making those same mistakes. And we cannot think that we are above that or are going to just step around that because we got some fancy software. You need to know what's going on. And I think we have to push the industry to be more human centered, human, human focused on the experiences and the people's lives that were affecting when we draw that map. When we draw that line, you know, one of the most important things I learned in working with a community based organization, not even in this country was these women said to me, do not come here and tell us what you're going to do for us. We've had everybody come through here telling us we're going to do this. We're going to do that. You don't tell us, you sit down and listen, we'll tell you what we want, what we need, and we're going to tell you how to get there, and their motto literally was nothing for us without us, right? That's right, that's right. So everybody has to have a seat at this table. We, as people of color, black people at GIS are saying we want a seat at the table, but we have an obligation to make that table bigger. That's right. And bring some other people with us, right? I am about making this table. Bigger and bringing somebody and listening rather than telling them what we're going to do for them. Let's do an imaginary bingo card, right? If you looked at the beginning of this year and the beginning of 2024, And if you said, what is definitely going to happen that didn't happen? And then on the other side, what did you think? This is never going to happen that came to fruition. So what didn't happen yet is, is I haven't made my million dollars yet this year. So not yet. We're getting there. Of course, you always have financial goals to what kind of impact you're going to make, etc. But again, it's never dictated by me. I'm doing a lot of responsiveness where I'm working with communities. And I'm literally flying week to week to a different neighborhood to work with, with folks in a variety of different ways. And so it's always, you can ask anybody on my team, my life is always very spontaneous and which, where, what city are we going next and what are we doing next? And so it's a little hard to plan sometimes, but one of the things that happened that I was unaware was going to happen was the advancement that we've made in the Bronx. I think the work in the Bronx has really taken off. We've only been working with them for like maybe half a year. And since then we've had, we've in collaboration with folks like the Angela Yombo foundation with the YMCA with a few charter schools, we've been able to have at least five or six engagements where we had a youth. Violence Reduction Summit, after the summit we played a basketball game, we had a back to school event where we gave away resources, we had a health clinic on site, those kind of things, we've engaged with over 300 students in the Bronx, teaching about community mapping, and now students were talking about, well, we need a little bit more trash cans, there's a little too much trash, da da da da, so, To your point from earlier, we've created an app where students, community leaders can take pictures, geocode a location and be able to submit that. And again, right now we're in the process of gathering a lot of that data, putting it together, making sure it's in the community leaders hands, and then they're going to be presenting to their leadership, to their, their district leadership so that they can try to make an impact there. Whether it is about the litter situation, whether it is about doing, coordinating a community cleanup. So again, because I think there's. An effort there where we can teach and we can do all these things. But to me, that's still a little passive for me as an organizer. It's about action. And when people are able to be out there side by side. Whether that's cleaning up trash or knocking door to door or whatever it might be, there is a lot of growth in that. And you see people recognize their own power. And I think that's really what we really try to do. And so this year, I could not have imagined how much great work we've been able to accomplish there. And that's a big testament to all the partners we have there. Again, not us, but the partners that have allowed us to do that work and have supported us in gaining access to their students, gaining access to community leaders so that we can make that difference. Well, kudos to you for that work. Like I said, I was born in New York City, and if you're talking hoops, you're in the right place. You're definitely going to connect to people, especially young men in New York. Look, New York City, we own hoops. I don't care what the rest of you say. We own hoops in New York City. I'm so grateful to you for making time for us. Let's say thank you so much for supporting North Sturgeon. Tremendously grateful to you for the work that you do and for being here for Homecoming. Thank you. Thank you very much. If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more about Northstar of GIS, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at GIS Northstar. We want to thank our sponsors of the 2024 Homecoming event, our institutional partner ReGrid, and our sponsors New Light Technology, Afrotech, and Black at Work. We'd like to thank our keynotes, Tara Roberts, Linda Harris, Dr. Paulette Hines Brown, and Vernice Miller Travis. We'd like to thank Howard University and the staff at the Interdisciplinary Building and Photography by Imagery by Chioma. We also want to thank our guests for trusting us with their stories. Tara, Linda, Paulette, Christian, Abraham, Jason, Vernice, Stella, Beye, Karen. Nikki, George, Frank, Labdi, Toussaint, Victoria, and the HBCU Environmental Justice Technical Team. And finally, thank you to the North Star team and our wonderful volunteers. We are your hosts of the Season 2 of the North Staggers Podcast, which is based on the 2024 Homecoming Conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.