. Welcome to today's episode of North Star Gaze. We are excited to have Mr. Biyi. Fafunmi as our guest today. He is joining us from the National Bureau of Statistics in Nigeria. I've been following with great interest both the planned census the gap between the 2006 census and what happened in 2023. We know that you have an illustrious background and all the work that you've been doing with the National Bureau of Statistics. But do me a favor and introduce yourself. to our audience, please. Okay. Thank you for having me, this, evening. My name is a Biyi for me, and I work with, National Bureau of Statistics in Nigeria. And I started my career in National Bureau of Statistics as the head of Research and Policy Analysis Unit in the Office of the Chief Executive Districts and General , where I later moved to head the Data Management Division in Information and Communication Technology Department, where, GIS, unit, Office of the Chief Executive Districts and General. Is located. After that, I was moved to a Greek and business enterprises. Department as the director, where I retired on by my educational background. I had my first degree in statistics and also postgraduate degree in computer science. And a master degree in geographical information system. So I've worked with the MBS for 32 years and I just retired this month as the director of agri and business enterprises department. I started the GIS application with the National Broad Statistics when I noticed that data that we are producing location based, and the trend all over the world is to integrate statistics with GIS. And that has been my driving force and what motivated me into introducing GIS in National Geographic Statistics. Fantastic. Thank you so much for that. That is such a formidable background and I'm clear about why we wanted to speak to you. Why is it important for you to speak to the North Star Gaze audience? For me. It is very important to speak with you because we are looking forward to learn from you and also to share my experience in the use of GIS in National Bureau of Statistics and other area of GIS application for data management. Decision making and several other areas where GIS is being applied. So I'm hoping that by sharing my view and experience with you to give me a wider Opportunity of people knowing what we are doing in national growth processes in Nigeria, with the use of a GIS and our data production. That is very important to me. Thank you so much for that. Thank you and I think one of the things that has struck me is how you have such a powerful combination, which is something I think I would have done if I had an option of, getting like a view into an hourglass and seeing how I'd want my career to evolve. You've talked about statistics. You've talked about computer science. You've talked about GIS. Those are like the three most powerful combination of components. And I'm saying that from a career perspective, because I think there's a big gap between what GS professionals are taught and what actually goes on in computer science. I think there's a bridge there that needs to be bridged. And so I'm so fascinated by your combination and how powerful it is. I'm curious on just and congratulations on your retirement. And I want us to look back into your journey introducing GIS at the Bureau of Statistics. And I'm just curious on how your role evolved over time. And also how you think GIS is going to evolve and your role in the future, as you're leaving, what does that look like in terms of if someone was to step into your shoes Okay. Okay. Thank you for that very important question. From my introduction, I said what motivated me into introducing GIS in MBS is I noticed that for the National Statistics Office, it is very important for us to have Reliable timely data on if we don't have data that is of high quality, then for me, I think we are doing. We are not working on imbibing in technology is very key to me for us to achieve that. And when the issue around. Integrating statistics and GIS came up through the UN system, UN GGDI GIS. So I quickly introduce that to call the attention of the OSCIS to that. And for us to move from manual way of data collection or data production. Into digital way. There's no way we can do without GIS I want to give you an example before. Now we normally use a paper based enumeration area for data collection, which I noticed that using that introduced a lot of errors. But I later found out that. If we can digitize this and put this on a device, then it will improve on our data quality. And that is what motivated me for, data collection. Then also, I noticed that presenting data in the old way of traditional way, row and column, make it difficult for users to understand. But when you put them in maths, or Modern visualization form. It helps users to understand your data. So these are areas that's Ginger, my introduction of GIS, and I've been trying to also build capacity on my subordinates so that when I leave, then they will be able to take up this responsibility. So on a regular basis, we conduct a training to build the capacity. Of young ones through the help and the assistance from development partners and also gism Providers s3 has done a lot for us through capacity building then distributors In the country has also To invite us to some of the capacity building or workshop where we can expose our staff to what is going on in a GIS environment to just get them understanding and many of them are looking forward to. progress in that direction of building their future career in GIS. This has been what I've tried to do. So that when I leave, I will have something to leave behind as a legacy. I love that. I love the way you are thinking about this. Your journey sounds like it was very intentional, right? Many of the people that work in GIS, I know that you got here almost by accident, but it sounds like you were very purposeful in going down this route into studying G. I. S. But what was the very beginning like? So was it a class you took? Was it some data that you were looking for? Was it once you were at N. B. S. Trying to make that transition? What was your initial involvement with the G. I. S. Technology? Yeah, my initial involvement in G. I. S. Technology. Started with when former National Bureau of Statistics was merged with the then Federal Office of Statistics. And I was in the National Data Bank, where technology was driving almost all our process. But coming to FOS, which is almost a traditional way of data collation. The, then such a general, I just call on me because he knows that I have interest in that technology. And he's speak with me and said, how can we improve the system? And we send. Enumerators to the feed for data collection and when they came back and we are trying to process the data, I saw a lot of errors in what they are submitting. And I also noticed that going through this process before we finally get the final results of this exercise, the data might become obsolete. So I was thinking of how do we cut. The time so that the data will not be obsolete. How can we improve on the quality of the data how can we also make things easier for enumerators and most importantly to monitor them during the data collection? So this idea of first getting the digital enumeration area came into my Mine and I was using my knowledge from my bsc at the msc in Gis to construct the paper Ea Enumeration area map into one and when I was able to complete a certain number of a state And when I give that to the enumerators, I found out that the quality of data obtained from those states are more higher than that of the state where paper questionnaire was was used. What an extraordinary vision. That's fantastic. I'm curious Government normally has the biggest potential when it comes to being the biggest technology adopters because of how structures are and serving. Communities and the entire public, right? And so I'm curious from your perspective looking back at the years you've worked at the Bureau some of the challenges you face when it comes to integrating GIS into your statistical tools. What did that look like? What are the challenges you first, if any, when you're trying to bring this into the bureau? Thank you for that question. When I was introducing GIS to the bureau, GIS was relatively new. And I can tell you that with more than 1000 in the bureau, I was the only A person with a gisa knowledge. So and when you are introducing a new technology you always find resistance because not that they don't want it but because maybe they don't understand and they might be feeling that oh this technology want to take. Some of their responsibility away from them. So I first find that challenge, face that challenge of how do I make people understand that this technology is for you to improve on what you are doing and also to enhance your work. So that was the first challenge that I faced. The other challenge is availability of data. I need to get data for my GIS analysis. And National Statistics Office, you need data from various agencies, sector by sector, but you find out that The data that are available in those agencies are not in the right format that you can use for your analysis or to be integrated into your GIS application. So this as Another this another challenge that I face then cost of acquiring GIS licenses is also new. A serious one that we are facing because I wanted to start small and I demanded that we should have full answers for five users so that I can use that to train or build the capacity of other When they hear the cost in dollars, so The office was scared and but thanks to S3 then the evaluation copy was a made available so that we can use for three months then and that was An advantage for me to thereafter, I said, that is not sustainable. We need to have licenses. And again, even for me at times, I will need some technical support. And to get that technical support from others that are More knowledgeable than I, because I was also coming up. So you find it very difficult, So these are some of the challenges that that I faced initially when I was introducing GSP to my agency. I'm so happy you mentioned evaluation licenses. I think we've all survived on trial licenses and evaluation licenses because the costs and then you put in your local currency when you're converting, it's just, oh my God, I will go with the trial version. And so that's very relatable. Erica, back to you. Okay, thank you. So you got your training, but how are other young professionals in Nigeria getting trained on GIS and what can we do to help support that? Yeah I think GIS is becoming more Interesting and known to young professionals because of the importance of GIS in the, in every sector now. There is the need for GIS experts to to be there to help them Do some geospatial analysis. And the availability of this GIS community free online training by Esri has really help. Young professionals. In within the country, some GIS providers are also organizing competition where the young ones are encouraged to participate and showcase what they can do. And that is a kind of a motivation to them. To make sure that we encourage them to do their Professional career in in gi. So and thank God now that we have some open source GIS application that they can use to to do a lot of work. But when they want to do things that are more advanced that I just saw a map and others can would do that is when they have a challenge, but I think with the open source application, it encourage young professional to at least do certain level of geospatial analysis, and that is an encouragement to the young ones. When it comes to the ecosystem here, I know how different it is in the African continents where we really thrive on distributors like you mentioned samples, and I'm curious on your interaction with the wider GIS ecosystem and what you think the role of distributors in this region is, And how does that impact your work, for example, in the uptick of GIS for users like us, for NBS or any other organizations? Yeah, for me the distributors are really, I can give you an instance of a, when we later the opportunity of acquiring five licenses and after the expiration of the three years, and we could not pay for the renewal of the license, the distributor came and Help us to understand that we can speak Esri and through some of their program, give us some discounts. And they are the one that did that connection and we enjoyed that for Very significant deduction and there was even a time that during covid when really Needed this Tool to build our data hub. So they're the one that connect on between NBS and Esri and then we were able to develop the data. And also giving some training to NBA staff and we are able to develop the data up and also make that tool available to other users to monitor the spread and the impact of covid within the, within the Nigeria. So they're really helpful to and let me also mention this. I was I had opportunity of participating on the Esri Award. It was through the distributor that I was aware of that, and I put in my competition at the, I was I was given an award. I got that award for MBS when I put in my own story about the use of GIS in NB. And it was among the several other countries I was given the award and also through the distributor, I was also given a user award. Personally, these are some of the things that the distributor do to motivate us and to encourage us and to help us. Thank you for that. You've already partially answered the question because of the work that you're doing already. I often ask our guests, how can GIS be used in your country to, A, make your country better, make the continent better, and make the world a better place? What is your thought about that? Yeah my, my thought on that is that GIS is becoming one of the strongest tools for data management, for decision making. GIS provides a powerful tool for data analysis and data visualization, and it's also a powerful tool to integrate different data together, which makes decision making more easier And also help users or individual to understand data better. And with that policy makers will be very careful. On what they are doing. And also it's also a tool for citizens to also monitor what government is doing. And with that it will also help us to manage the. Little resources that is available by government to take care of the citizen. GIS can help us improve environment and make the world a better place. Because we can monitor everything that is going on within the space where we occupy. Thank you so much. And as you're speaking, I'm thinking about the, your years at the Bureau and how rich your experience has been over the years. I feel like you've been in a real battleground in getting government to actually adopt GIS. And so I'm curious if you had to pick your single biggest GIS breakthrough in your entire 32 year journey, what would that be and why? Yeah the, I have a lot, but the one I will pick as the most achievement is breaking the jinx of time of data release, because before the introduction of the GIS for data collection and production. As I mentioned earlier, data produced maybe in January will not be readily available for use until around June. And because of the introduction of a GIS, the digital enumeration area being able to be embedded into our data collection too. I also Use the same thing to divide the entire country into strata for business establishment survey, a census. So we call, we have what we call the national business sample sensors, which before we'll just go into to the feed and be looking for where businesses are, but with the use of a satellite imagery, so you can see where the business are, then do your frame. For data collation and you send your enumerator data collation. Another one that looks like that is the area frame construction. That is on agricultural statistics. Before now, what we normally do is that we do a sample selection. We can say that, okay, we are selecting 20, 000 enumeration area in the entire country, and we are selecting 2020 from each local government, not minding whether there is agricultural activities in those local governments, but with this area framework construction. So you can just look at the satellite image and see where agricultural is of high intensity, medium intensity, low intensity. And here agriculture is not even taking place. And you can cut those area into smaller Strat and select proportion that you think that will give you data. And when we do that, we find out that the quality of data that we have. Do one, that's it. You normally do using manual way of data selection. So this is. Some of the un lastly is allow the COVID-19 data of is one other great achievement that I think I need to talk about. Congratulations on that. Those are very, those are milestones. Those are huge milestones. And so congratulations on being able to achieve that at the Bureau. Yes. So Bea, I'm going to ask you a question in keeping with our theme for this year. And, I can't believe we haven't asked This way in our previous interviews. I happen to have been in Abuja when I saw the Black Panther movie, and I remember it just blew my mind completely. But I'd like for you to think about what an Afrofuturistic utopia might look like. We are in times right now, both here in the U. S. and I would say globally, which are far from utopia. But what do you think an Afrofuturistic utopia might be? Can My thoughts on that is that I believe that yes, we are Africa and we have a lot of things to show the world and using technology, we should be able to let the world know that these fantastic things that are available in Africa. We have culture, we have our food, we have the way we do things. Which the other part of the world might want to learn from so and if we did not showcase that the black Community or let me say the africa will still be seen as The way we have been represented so for me I want us to imbibe in the technology to make sure that we do the right thing, we improve on our governance. We showcase what we are good in and also make sure that the dark side that's the other part of the world seen in Africa are not actually. What it is. So that is what I want to say. Amen for that. When I tell people about what I experienced in Nigeria, it is so different from what they imagine Nigeria is or was. And go, you guys are crazy if you don't understand that this is a modern country with extraordinary opportunities, extraordinary people. So amen to you for dispelling those misinformation about the country and your and the continent. B, what would you say are the most and appreciated aspects of your work? At the Bureau or as a person who's been in the GIS space for this long. How, what would you say are the most and appreciated aspects of your work? To me, I don't think there is any aspect of my work that is not appreciated. That's the truth. Because it's just that they don't understand what I was Telling them in and I won't be offended because they don't have that. Knowledge of what I was telling them. Fantastic. I love that response. And I love that you are appreciated for what you brought to NBS. Now that you are nearing the conclusion of your time at NBS, and passing on a legacy, to others, what are the emerging tech trends that you're excited about? And how do you envision these trends, shaping the mapping and policies and global conversations that your mentees will be having? Yeah. On that, I want NBS to continue to appreciate the power of GIS and also understand the technology that is available for them to improve on their data. Production. Now we have AI, available, we have internet of things, we have machine learning, we have all this 3D that can make improvement on whatever data that we producing. Anything that will make us to move forward or to improve of where we are. I'm leaving them, so I will want NDS to continue to support that and make use of it. Of those technology to better improve on the data that they are producing. We always ask guests some of the things that stand out in their work and I'm just. As you're speaking, I'm just thinking of the kind of data you handle at the Bureau of Statistics the sensitivity of the data, you've talked about the quality of the data, and so I'm curious from your perspective, when someone says this is GIS done right, what would that mean to you from a, I don't know, Bureau standpoint or from BEES standpoint? Yeah, from for me GIS has helped us to know the truth and to show the truth. What I mean by saying that is that now you cannot produce data that is of low quality and you say is of high quality if you are using gis. You know Why I'm saying that is that before the GIS. What we normally have is a Generator data you have row and columns Data presented and it will be difficult for a country like nigeria where we have say for example If you are looking at a state you have 36 plus fct and you have variables maybe about 10 variables that you want to compare So you have to be scrolling from up and down if you want to compare One or two states and see what is happening there. But with GIS, you can actually inform. A particular indicator and that will show exactly It is and also in the area of Addressing issue that has to do with a flooding Preventing disaster And so on and so forth. So the GIS has helped us to be able to do that. In Nigeria, for example, now, where we have a pipeline vandalization and so on and so forth, if we really use GIS, we can monitor that and the cost of that vandalization and the consequence of that to the nation will be removed. Now, GIS has done a lot of things for us, and by making data to be able to be integrated is also a great thing that GIS has done. And now, you don't need to, the cloud based environment that GIS has provided is also one good thing that GIS has done. I think it will be appreciated. Fantastic. As we wind down this time together, Biyi, I actually have a two part question. There's a question that we've asked all of our guests, and that is as they think about Things that they thought were going to happen in 2024 and maybe made a mental bingo card of what was most likely to happen in the year. What happened that was not at all on your bingo card? Can you share with that? Yeah. For me, I think almost all that I plan for in 2024 or I was able to to implement them except some that are beyond my capacity, for example. You can have a plan and when the resources to implement that the plan is not available. We did establishment survey and we have a results and I wanted to have that. Establishment result being mapped so that I can just open a Nigeria map and I see the location of all the establishments in Nigeria by different categories and population be able to Also, make that map accessible to wider users all over the world and people can just use that to locate. Any business that they are looking for but I was unable to do that because of them not a release of of the phone for the activities. But I think I think it's a general issue among ministry department and agencies in Nigeria. And that's the only thing that I think I've done. That indeed would have been a great service. So perhaps one of your the young people that you have been training will take on your vision and maybe that will be part of the legacy. I would say yes. It has been fascinating to hear from you. I am a fan of the work that you've done at NBS. And I know you are leaving big shoes to be filled. It's probably going to take 5 or 10 people who are going to have to step in to continue the work that you've done at NBS. Thank you so much for sharing time with us today. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for saying yes to sharing your journey. Congratulations on your retirement as well. I think your work is very inspiring. Thank you. Thank you very much.