Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. Hi everybody, I'm here today with Dr. Amy. And we have Dr. Amy to thank for being at the illustrious, you know, browsing room here on Howard's campus. And Howard. As a university is an iconic institution of education for the black community, and I'm so honored to be here. And I've come here probably like five or six times in the past two months, and so now I feel like I know my way around in that hill. See, that's why you got those calves, Dr. Amy. All right, so let's get into it. Dr. Amy is an Associate Professor of Africana Studies and Data Science. And I'm going to ask Dr. Amy to tell us a little bit about your career journey. Thank you for the question. Thank you for joining us here at Howard. We are in love with NorthStar and the work NorthStar is doing. And it was just a no brainer to kind of have you join us here. So my journey, so my journey started in sociology. I had a background in statistics, and from there I moved from sociology to African American Studies. Because I was passionate about studying Black life, Black people, place, and culture. So place has always been the center of the work I've done. But data science came about during COVID. At the height of COVID, I realized that AI had taken away vaccines, testing sites. It's got everything wrong with our communities and I want to know more about. What AI was and kind of what the field of data science was doing and how it unfortunately disadvantaged our community. So, I pivoted for two years went back to school after getting a PhD, went back to school again learned I took a GIS course, one. Again I took a data science course, analytics course, and I began to kind of build my understanding as far as data. And how we should tap into the power of data. And from there, Howard also started a program, and now I'm the director of the program of data science at Howard University. See, I love that. And I think that you asked an awesome question yesterday, because we work in the geosciences, we work with a lot of data, we know that data, big data, has been in the news a lot lately. So let's talk about who owns the data, the importance of Owning your data or the importance of knowing who owns the data. And let's talk about the integrity that we want to, to make sure to hold organizations who handle our data accountable to. Yes. Good point. So in our program, we have data courses that are in Python, R, SQL, but the primary course they take before they even code is social justice course on ethics, right. And trustworthiness and understanding who. What, where how did you come upon this data before you begin to manipulate it, play with it, clean it, manage it? Because many times, many people who work with data are not trained to think about the individuals who are behind these numbers, these statistics, these locations, these maps. And we lose sight of the integrity, the trust the transparency that needs to be embedded in the data first from a programming standpoint, from a user standpoint, from a design standpoint. That it is extra work, but if we look at areas in the world where people have not thought about those questions and we see what happened, the results of these decisions, now we know why we should kind of take a few steps back to think about that. So at Howard, we are hard on ethics, we are hard on trust, we are hard on centering communities, we are hard on just not cleaning data or deleting missing information, but really going out to search for missing data, to fill in gaps. To be able to have holistic sense of maps and spaces and people and culture that empowers not just the one who's programming or making the map, but the person who's gonna use the map or the person who may at a later point, look at the map and say, you know, where am I? Or, or was I included? So we center and ask the question who is, who is, who is the data from? How'd they receive it? If it's a government data, did they get consent? Right? In accepting that data. How long is the data going to be used? Right? Does the person who gave the the data, do they have the, the space and place to be able to reject and not participate anymore if they don't want to? In many cases, people don't have those answers to those questions, and we find ourselves in the same circles over and over again so we try to kind of center that conversation in our work we do here. Oh, you have gone to so many levels of deepness, and so I, while I do have many questions, I do want to ask this question because we have a lot of young career professionals still probably impressionable minds who will come through your program and who will get their career starts in GIS. How hard is it to have these conversations? I mean, I think there's definitely a learning curve with GIS, which you should be proficient to be able to understand how to design, put together, tell stories present places and spaces. But if we don't take the step back to think about why we're doing these things it is, that question isn't easy, right? It isn't, it's a moral question, right? Morally, you have to say, do I see the people who I, who people don't see, right? So sometimes it's a lot of work. It takes time. It takes practice. It takes for some institutions, they need to have guidelines, right? Because people naturally don't think about themselves. I mean, think outside themselves. Right. That's the question I was going to ask you. I was going to ask you When you have these conversations, so typically, you will be in spaces where, like you said, people who work with data don't always see the people, and how do you get them to actually see the people and connect with the people? Because they will tell you that's a no no, right? They focus on, focus on the data, focus on the science, right? But is that a perspective that is unique to people who have been marginalized and taken from? I mean, it's interesting. So I think at Howard, we're focused on truth and service. So people are always thinking about themselves, the extension of their homes, their neighborhoods. So at some, to some degree, here, students do get it, but it's still a sense of, after you leave here and you go into a workforce where people don't think about you and your families, will you kind of do that again? And I think that's the, that's the hard part, that it does take courage, right? It does take strength to say, I'm not going to move forward with this data set or this map because we've use AI to figure out how to project these numbers for this community, where we know we have not gone to that community to really assess their survey or assess their responses. So it's hard. It's hard. It takes time. And I think because the pay rate is so high, you know, it's, it's more for, it's, it's lucrative to, to not think twice. It's lucrative to. To just drag and drop and just, yeah, it's such a balance, especially for our community to look at some of the numbers in terms of salaries and make that decision that this thing called integrity, who owns the data is more important than the number of zeros on a check. Yeah, yeah. And interesting, I was looking at some data with the work we're doing and one of the, one of the oil and gas companies on their website, they say how many people they employ, how much they give back to the community, but they don't say how much, right? You know, how much toxins they emit in the air, right? But your job is to make the map, right? And you can't say, Oh, should we include that? Of course, you're gonna get fired. But you know, this is the space in which how do you, you know, what's happening. You know, the data and you know, the map definitely has its place. But what does it mean to leave out that critical information that people should know what's happening to them in their communities? So yeah, it's tough. And I think North Star creates a space where. If you're faced with that question, you can talk to someone who probably found a solution or maybe find a pathway for you to go somewhere else as you can be more supported in doing social justice work and mapping. But yeah, it's not everywhere. Okay. So, you're in a unique situation where, and I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that your educational trajectory has taken you through PWIs as well as HBCUs? In terms of isolation, what has that experience been? And I'm not going to tell you any more, but I want you to know that I've got two little kids that I'm thinking about putting through college. I went to, I went to a PWI. I know some of the barriers and I'm thinking my oldest has said she wants to go to an HBCU. So can you tell us? So there is definitely something special about HBCUs. I went to PWI undergrad, grad. When I went back to grad school, I went to PWI as well. But there's something about being at HBCU that many people believe that if you're at an HBCU, you're in a different world or you're in a minority space where the majority of the world is a white world, which is not true. The majority of the world is a black and brown world. But being in a space where you are supported encouraged you are given exposure to people who see you With a future that someone else, maybe a PWI, may not see, I think that's the beautiful thing. Now, I'm asking students if they have challenges. Of course they do. I think from a faculty side, from a student side, nothing is perfect anywhere. But there's a sense of, if you're trying to go into a space, that already has tension in it. Tension as far as gender, sex, income, the numbers aren't there. Being in the space for four years to be able to build confidence, to be able to get trained, to be able to get exposure does help and does create a buffer when you leave here to be able to kind of be mature enough to handle possibly a career where you you're kind of going back to the Minority numbers in the field where there's business, law, medicine Howard is very unique where we have a law school, med school divinity school. We have everything in this space where you can kind of bump up against a pastor, a doctor, and a dentist. And then when you leave here, you feel like, okay, I can see every version of blackness in this space at a high degree. And feel comfortable leaving the space and saying, you know what, I, I, I, I can do it. Right. And that's what we provide here, Howard. Okay, so there are a few things that we talked about panel wise over these last two days. We talked about relevancy. We talked about engaging young folks. You brought your class to the homecoming event today. Why? Oh I know it was tough because I was like, should I bring them? Should I bring them? Because they don't know what GIS is, most of them. But I felt that Them being exposed to the power of another aspect of data, and particularly for black women, right, seeing that a black woman was going to kind of give the demo for my students, I wanted them to see something different. I think being at Howard, like one of the things that we tell our students is, you know, you never know what you're, like, you never know, like, what you'll get. Maybe you'll walk into class and will be there. Maybe you'll walk into class and Northstar will be there. And it will be, it will be beneficial to you because you may not be, at a PWI, you may not get both of those options. Right? So knowing that you're exposed to this tool you're exposed to this resource, you're exposed to people who look like you, who are in these spaces, if you know nothing about spatial data, now you do know. Right? And if you want to dive deeper, you can. And if you don't, at least you know what it is. And in the words of the great Biggie, If you don't know, now you know. Okay, last two hardest questions. The theme of this year's Homecoming event, first live in person event, was resilience or resistance? Which resonates with you more? I think the resistance part for me cause I think, just thinking about Black people and place As a displaced community is a very resistant question, like to situate us in places, places in the U. S., in D. C., across the globe, says something about us when people don't feel like we don't show up, we don't show up on time we don't bring value. So being able to have that conversation about us in place historically, I think is a powerful conversation on resistance. Okay, last question. Hardest? Based on your vast experience and knowledge. In your career, if a zombie apocalypse happened now, what would be your approach to surviving? If a zombie apocalypse was to happen now, I mean right now, like in this room, in this library, on this campus. Today, if I met you. If, wow, okay, so, like you're in the room now, that's, that's, that's, that's a different dynamic. If the zombies got into Founders Library, I think I would have to, like, fight and wrestle. You know they have to be black zombies, right? I mean, listen, but Y'all got black squirrels! We do got black squirrels. Black zombies, I don't think they down like that. But, if the zombies got in the Founders Library, well, first, if they were outside, they would not get in. Cause Founders is old as dirt, and no one can break through Founders, right? So, the historical building of Founders is a wonderful building. But if they were in, I, I mean, I'll have to like barricade myself with the, I don't know, some books because I feel like people are allergic to books. Well, you know, they've removed books. So no one's going to touch those books. There's some books for zombies. So I'll throw some books at the zombies and they'll run away. Huh. Huh. Yes. If they were a certain type of zombie. Okay. All right. Well, Dr. Amy. Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down here and talk with me. Thank you for bringing the young folks because when we talk about GIS and we talk about being relevant, we need our young people. Thank you for Founders Library, the browsing room for this wonderfully iconic experience. I can't tell you to the depths of my soul what it feels like to be on these hallowed grounds. Thank you. Thank you. We welcome you again and again and again. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Louberts, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room and to the Northstar team. Thank you. Shakonda, Raisha, Clinton. Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.