Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. Hi, everybody. I'm here today with Mike. Mike is the Senior Program Manager at National Academies, National Academy of Sciences. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your career path? Sure. So yeah, I'm Mike Feldman. I work at the National Academy of Sciences right now in the Gulf Research Program. And I'm the lead on environment there. And one of the Oh, I came there through a Fortunate coincidence of working on a lot of these long term programs. I've started my career working on something called the Census of Marine Life, which was trying to count every living thing in the ocean. This was about, it's an absurd idea. No, I laugh because in my undergrad, I went to school near Presque Isle Bay, in Erie, Pennsylvania. And one of my favorite classes was my limnology class, which is the study of benthic ocean communities. So we would take back our water samples and we would count all the algae and all the different bio, bio life. So imagine doing that, but on a global scale. Oh my goodness, so. So sort of cut my teeth on that and then just kept, kept sort of following trajectory and then Deepwater Horizon happened so out of Deepwater Horizon, there was the second Major spill of national significance for the U. S. It's really the third one in North America since 1979. It was, as with all those previous, the previous spills, it was new circumstance, new situation, and so there was a, we needed the best science available and the best scientists to try and get involved to help solve that problem. There's a lot of money that came out of that, and since then I've been helping to direct various funding., from, someone was just given his donation, and a lot of it was out of penalty and criminal fines that, that came out of it. But the end goal here is to put that money back in the Gulf and do what we can to support the people that live there whoever they are, wherever they are so that they live a more sustainable, resilient future. Well, first, thank you for being a sponsor. Oh, it's my, it's our pleasure. Okay, so, being in career spaces that are male dominated, how do you go about helping others to create spaces at tables for people who don't look like you? There are two aspects to that, I guess. The one is there's the National Academies themselves. Take this very seriously. And so, before there's any activity that happens, there's a whole review committee that looks over the balance, composition, expertise, race, gender, age, every aspect of it of any committee and any activity we go into. One of the challenges though, especially in the natural sciences, is that a lot of the answers to that end up being, you know, Bearded white men are, are, frankly, a lot of the, the, the people that, that pop up that seem like they have, at least on paper, the strongest credentials. But that's, that's not where, where things are going now. And we, we need as broad opinions and ideas in the room as possible. These are major challenges, like dealing with sea level rise in the Gulf is, is, is a huge issue. And it's not the seas are rising. They're faster. what do you feel Supreme Court is worth more than anywhere else in the world right now, not to mention, it's also the land's also sinking. So you sort of have this double whammy and this is a it's actually when GIS storytelling comes into play in a significant way is How do you convince the people and this is a really hard thing to do that they live in areas that We know it's going to be flooded over and over again, and homes are going to be destroyed. And I, and in many cases, these people have lived there for generations. There's family roots and cultural ties, but it's also about safety. And so, so how do you, how do you get them to consider different options? Is a major, major challenge. And you know, using GIS and that idea of storytelling. It's a mapping and more granularity as to exactly where people care about how does this affect me? So you need to get down to their house, their block, their community. That's right. Yes. Okay, so when Clinton made the call you answered. Why? It actually I think it was more the other way around. As Clinton mentioned, this is something he was working on and it helped take me out of I've had equity training, DEI training, but a lot of times these are online courses that I'm clicking through and it's fine. It's definitely a step in the right direction, I'd like to think, but seeing this event and seeing what the goals were for this event. I, I joked with my team, I said that we should be screaming from the mouth and tops about this work and what they're doing, because this is, this is actionable. Well, we welcome you to do so. And I'm, I'm trying. Yes, yes. Okay, so earlier we talked about moving from talking to action and accountability. How do you hold yourself accountable doing this work, this diversity, equity, and inclusion work? How do you hold yourself accountable? Well, I mean, it's right now. I'll say three things, I guess. One would be to continue to challenge convention which is just, if there's a Scruffy beard white man. No, but if there's, if, I, I love, I love puzzles. Huh. This seems like a Incredibly complex puzzle, and I have no aspirations to solve this, but if someone tells me, No, no, this is the way we do it because we've always done it that way. There's nothing that makes me want to go in the opposite direction more than that. So, so I think that's, that's part of it. Understand that we can't keep doing business as usual. We can't keep funding the same scientists over and over again. We can't keep funding the same types of projects over and over again. And we need to think about different ways and different approaches. So that's. That's that would be one thing. The other thing is to try and surround myself with people that are much smarter than I am. Mm hmm. So that that helps a lot. That that's a really good check on on me and my accountability. And then it's to just understand that you you never stop learning and there's I have a lot of learning that needs to happen. So listening and learning and interacting with people like Clinton and yourself and Northstar are, it's, they're small steps, but I think they're important steps to holding myself accountable. Well, it can't be comfortable. How do you navigate the discomfort that you might feel, because I think we're in a space in our society where people are clinging to their comfort at the expense of being able to advance. Socially, being able to just advance innovation wise. How do you deal with the discomfort? Because I know this conversation is not an easy conversation to have. So how do you, how do you navigate the discomfort? Sometimes you just go for it. I mean, I, I think the only way you grow is to, to push your comfort levels. And if you stay with what you're comfortable with and stay in your lane, then that's where you're going to be. And if you want to grow and you want to. Challenge those conventions and change things, then you have to push the limits. And I, it's something I've tried to do throughout my entire career. And I sort of force everyone on my team to do the same thing. It's like, oh, you're, you're uncomfortable talking in front of a large group of people. Well, guess what? You're giving a presentation. You're going to get 10 presentations to give. That's exactly right. And so it's I think throwing myself in the middle of the fire and, and seeing how I do is, is a really good way of, you know, I want to push my comfort level. I'm not, I'm not comfortable yet by any means. So that's, that's a good thing. I know. But but yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna shy away from it. Well, I will tell you, people will tell you that I'm going to always say the things that need to be said and, you know, ask the questions that need to be asked. And it's never easy. So I definitely appreciate the transparency and having this conversation with me. Okay. So as a black. woman, career professional. I have always heard that in terms of finding mentorship and coaching, that I should seek out old white men in my organization. So shifting the conversation to mentorship and coaching. Have you mentored young black people or people who are just not like you in your career? I, I, I have. I, I, I'm actually, I'd like to see the people who say that old white men are the best mentors too. Huh. Huh. Because that, that's a, that's a new one for me. And, and hopefully I'm not in fully the old white man category yet. And I'm no longer a, a, a young black woman, so I'll just set that aside. But no, I, I mean, I, I think I came to the value of mentorship Later in life. Mm-Hmm.. And you know, I, everyone makes mistakes and I expect everyone who works with me to, to make mistakes as well, but it, it's, it's about learning from those mistakes and, and not repeating them over and over again. Mm-Hmm. it was a mistake that I didn't have a mentor personally at an earlier age. And so any opportunity. That I have to, to try and mentor whoever it is if they're, if they're willing to listen to what I have to say, if they find it helpful, then I'm, I'm happy to make the time. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about cultural competency. I think when we spoke before, you mentioned that this was a term that you were not familiar with. Yeah. And so in terms of. Mentorship and mentoring young people in particular. When I think of cultural competency, I think of the lens. Through which our mentees might interact and navigate the world. And when I think of effective mentors in that context, I think of someone who can speak the language without dumbing down or, or offending. And I'll give you a few examples. So sometimes I. I was an instructor once where I was the expert in the room and I might have been fixing a computer or something and people would walk in and I'm greeting my students as I should and they would kind of give the impression or even voice that they're waiting for the instructor to show up and I'm like, I am the instructor. I am the expert in the room, so there's a bit of a bias for who they expect to be leading that classroom to be an expert in the technology. I am a native New Yorker, and you won't hear it unless I say water or something like that. Where in New York are you from? Brooklyn Manhattan. So there we go. See? But understanding that, right, when people think of New York, they think of Manhattan, right? But I'm from Brooklyn. That's part of my time in Queens. I think of Long Island more than anything else. They're like, why don't you sound like that? I'm like, well, that's Long Island very specifically. And that's the thing. People will tell me you don't have an accent. You're very articulate. And I'm like, Black people are articulate, right? And so when we talk in terms of cultural competency, those biases are the things that we want to set aside when we're working with our young people. Because sometimes, from the under resourced environments that we come from, you know, the systems and barriers that were put in place, We're sometimes additionally challenged to just show up. So someone might be coming to your mentorship program and have taken three buses or may have ridden their bicycle. And so for someone to say, well, you're disheveled, you know, how dare you show up, right? That's demoralizing. But that also means that you don't have the cultural sensitivity to understand where those young people are coming from. And So I just wanted to share that with you because you were transparent with me over the time that Northstar has been in place, we've had a number of organizations ask myself or Clinton or other Northstar members to come and share and peel back the layers of skin of our experience and share our story. My response and my urging to Clinton is that no, we're not doing this alone. Yeah, if we're gonna have the conversation, we're all pulling back skin. Mm hmm. We're all putting skin in the game. So if we're gonna be uncomfortable as black people on the stage talking about our experience, we need white folks to come to the table and do the same. So I definitely appreciate your candor and transparency with telling me these are terms I hadn't heard before. With that lens in terms of mentorship, I'll say that I don't know that I've been with the context of, I dunno that I've necessarily been the, the best mentor to everyone, but I'm doing the best that I can. But there's sort of two, two things that I, I try really hard to do. One is recognizing very early on that. Treating people the way I would like to be treated is probably one of the worst things you could do. That everyone is different. Every individual has different things that motivate them and different points of stress. And the faster as a mentor that you can learn those and understand those, the more helpful you can be in understanding what, what they're., the other part I'd say is that mentorship is it's a two way street, very much so, and that every mentor I've had and every mentee I've had, I've learned something from and hopefully vice versa. So it's, it's, it's a growth opportunity for everybody involved. And I think that's so true, especially if you have kids. I tell you, I learned so much from my kids. So much things that I thought I forgot because we sometimes think that young people should be seen and not heard. And I'm just like, the way that my nine year old breaks down scientific concepts is amazing. But, but gosh, when, when they struggle and it reminds me of my own struggles and you just, you, you want to help them so much, but you also know that there's, they have to sort of figure some of those things out on their own that, that the sitting back and not getting involved. Not taking action is maybe the hardest part of parenting, I think. So, alright, so to wrap things up, typically when I get to these last two questions I tell people that these are the hardest questions that you'll have to answer. But these will probably be the easiest questions you have to answer. So the theme of this year's first live and in person homecoming is Resilience and Resistance. Which of those resonates the most with you? I'm gonna say Resilience in trying to solve problems, especially incredibly complex, long term historical problems, like there are no quick solutions. If there were, someone would have figured it out by now. So a lot of times it's, it's, it's being resilient enough to, to endure, to live through it. It's like knowing that things will improve and will get better. And so especially with the work that I do down on the Gulf Coast where no region in the country has been repeatedly affected over and over again by not just the oil spill, which was, you know, what created a lot of the work I do, but compounding disasters of repeated storms of heat waves of You know, and this is leaving politics out of it as well. Right, the non existent climate change. Exactly, exactly right. So resilience, especially in the work that we do, is really, and personally, it really resonates. Very much so. This next question. Okay, I'm ready. You might need to tap into that nine year old brain. All right. All right, channel, channel your, your, your nine year old. Mm hmm. All right. Given your, your vast knowledge, and we know that little people can see beyond boundaries. Mm hmm. If a zombie apocalypse were to happen now, what would be your approach to surviving? If, if if a zombie apocalypse were, were happening right now you know, it's funny, survival's not the, the first thing on my mind. The first, the first thing is where are my kids and making sure that they're okay and they're safe. And then, and then we'll figure it out from there. Cause that, that would be the, is, is to, to make sure that, you know, I, I have to cut this conversation short and get out the doors. Oh, see, you're, you're a wonderful dad. The first person out the gate would be my nine year old. I'm like, you gotta go. Because she doesn't listen. I'm like, every morning we get in the car to go to school. I'm like, get in the car, close the door, put on your seatbelt. She gets in the car. She puts her bag down. She puts her seatbelt on. She turns to her sister. She has a conversation. I'm like. Noelle, if the zombie apocalypse was to happen now, the zombies would reach in and take you, and there's nothing I could do. She was like, well, mommy, you wouldn't come get me? I said, no, you will be one of them. I gave you the tool. I said put your seatbelt on. Exactly, exactly, like I told you the entire sequence. Everyone must stay in their lane and play their part. If it doesn't, you're gonna be dinner. And so, so there we have it. Well, Mike, thank you so much for sitting here and having this conversation with me. I greatly appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having me and asking me to do it. This was, it was, it was nice to talk. Good. All right. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Louberts, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room and to the Northstar team. Thank you. Shakonda, Raisha, Clinton. Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.